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Message |
    
2cooltoolz
Message Board Member
Username: 2cooltoolz
Post Number: 61
Registered: 06-2009
| | Posted on Friday, February 11, 2011 - 09:51 pm: | 
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LOFL!!! |
Dbcooper222
Message Board Member
Username: Dbcooper222
Post Number: 5
Registered: 12-2010
| | Posted on Friday, February 11, 2011 - 10:22 pm: |
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Religious extremists are the enemy, don't matter which one they follow |
Niterider
Message Board Member
Username: Niterider
Post Number: 20
Registered: 06-2010
| | Posted on Friday, February 11, 2011 - 11:49 pm: |
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Anybody who insists they want to:
kill me,
destroy my culture,
enslave or kill all believers in my religion,
kill all of my race.....
I have to believe their words by the way......
is my enemy.
Not by my choice but by their choice. And I will fight such EVIL in the world. |
Grayelky
Message Board Member
Username: Grayelky
Post Number: 781
Registered: 10-2009
| | Posted on Saturday, February 12, 2011 - 12:05 am: |
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I'm on Niterider's side.
And 2cooltoolz. |
Lohman446
Message Board Member
Username: Lohman446
Post Number: 328
Registered: 10-2010
| | Posted on Saturday, February 12, 2011 - 04:58 am: |
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DBCooper has it right. I'm not sure how extremist Islam has managed to have so many followers for so long though. |
Scag13
Message Board Member
Username: Scag13
Post Number: 131
Registered: 06-2009
| | Posted on Saturday, February 12, 2011 - 05:56 am: |
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Ron Paul is one of the few politicians who "got it right". It is our foreign policy (along with our exorbitant AID and incessant MEDDLING) that has made the world hate us.......and not our religious beliefs, our democracy, so-called equality of women, etc. At least he is not afraid to call "a spade a spade". |
Bert
Message Board Member
Username: Bert
Post Number: 32
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Saturday, February 12, 2011 - 06:47 am: |
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Why is it mankind thinks he is overall superior to all living things, but he has the need and desire to believe in something that is far superior than himself? |
Silvershooter
Message Board Member
Username: Silvershooter
Post Number: 324
Registered: 06-2010
| | Posted on Saturday, February 12, 2011 - 07:06 am: |
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Complicated issue. I'll add a few more details: I suspect many of the Muslim peoples in Iran like Americans but their religious and political leaders inspire anti-Americanism to further their positions of power and distract from internal national problems.
We have given them ammunition for their propaganda war against us with Hollywood. They can come to the conclusion that we are all violent sinful nasty whores/whoremongers/homos.
We've meddled in places like the Philippines but most love America there. There's no escaping the reality of the radical Muslims even there on some islands that are murdering Christians. No escaping that Islam calls for conquering the world and hate for Jews and non-Muslim pagans.
The bible states the middleeastern Muslims will turn and fight each other in the end-Shia against Sunni. They already do. They were predicted to become a people with their knife against every mans throat, including their brothers. Looks pretty accurate to me.
I don't hate Muslims. I feel sorry that they are blinded by their false beliefs.
Read "Son of Hamas" by a brave young Muslim spilling the beans. |
Tranquilo
Message Board Member
Username: Tranquilo
Post Number: 463
Registered: 06-2009
| | Posted on Saturday, February 12, 2011 - 07:08 am: |
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It takes much more faith to believe there is no God than to believe there is.  |
Ricart
Message Board Member
Username: Ricart
Post Number: 214
Registered: 06-2010
| | Posted on Saturday, February 12, 2011 - 08:09 am: |
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For those that remember Pearl Harbor, many thought Japan was "good old Boys" and even today, critics to the American Japanese being rounded up and held say it was an atrocity. The simple fact is, Japan attacked when our guard and military was down. (Smart on them, dumb on us.) Europe bent over backwards to please Hitler, look where it got them. Today, the world is being set up by the Muslim empire just as it was set up by Germany and Japan in the mid 1930's. Now, with a president like Obama, the ultra liberal media, bible thumpers saying love our fellow man, and apathy among the population, we may not wise up quick enough to save out backsides this time. |
Mndoug
Message Board Member
Username: Mndoug
Post Number: 290
Registered: 12-2010
| | Posted on Saturday, February 12, 2011 - 09:41 am: |
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I have a simple test for people of all religions: Either you do not advocate violence towards other people because of THEIR faith... or, you are an enemy. Whenever the Islamo-Nazis, al-Qaida, Hezbollah, Hamas and all the other extremist Muslims pass that test... and prove it with their actions... then, well, as the subject line sez...
(But I ain't holding my breath. Read the Koran to find out why, through a thousand years of history, Islam is the one religion that cannot seem to co-exist peacefully with others. If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck... ) |
Flyinbiker2001
Message Board Member
Username: Flyinbiker2001
Post Number: 78
Registered: 09-2010
| | Posted on Saturday, February 12, 2011 - 11:33 am: |
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We the west have been on there soil for 1000 years, 1st and 2nd crusades dont beleave for even a second that Muslims are NOT our enemy If you do thats wishfull thinking. I have spent years over there and parts of me are still there those folks dont like us and have every reason not to |
Westerly1965
Message Board Member
Username: Westerly1965
Post Number: 466
Registered: 09-2010
| | Posted on Saturday, February 12, 2011 - 11:48 am: |
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That's part of the problem Flyinbiker alot of people don't understand the things we have done to them. I agree they are our enemies I am just saying that a good chunk of people in this country are not educated as to why they are our enemies. Often times people think that the only things we have done over there have been good and the reality is that that is simply not true. While some of the things we have done have been good many have been bad as well. Unfortunately, to many people in this country are to concerned about what happened on American Idol last week to take the time to worry about adult stuff like who we should and should not be watching... |
Mndoug
Message Board Member
Username: Mndoug
Post Number: 300
Registered: 12-2010
| | Posted on Saturday, February 12, 2011 - 12:19 pm: |
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WESTERLY --> There is some truth to what you say regarding the past 75 years... but what was the reason for the First Crusade, back in 1096?
"The First Crusade was a military expedition from 1096 to 1099 by Western Christianity to regain the Holy Lands taken in the Muslim conquest of the Levant."
WIKIPEDIA: "The term Levant was originally applied to the "Mediterranean lands east of Italy"... "it includes modern Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Israel and the Palestinian territories, similar to the historic area called Syria or Greater Syria. Occasionally Cyprus, Sinai and Iraq are included. The UCL Institute of Archeology describes the Levant as the 'crossroads of western Asia, the eastern Mediterranean and northeast Africa'".
There's a lot more going on here than payback for recent annoyances, and we'd better wake up and realize it. Perhaps these maps of Europe and the various periods of Islamic rule will help:
Moorish Spain 714-1492 AD
Of course you know that one of the tales behind the invention of the Croissant is that it was invented in Vienna, Austria in 1683 to celebrate the defeat of Turkish siege of the city (the shape of the Croissant being the "crescent," as on the Turkish flag.)
This goes WAAAAYYYYY back. I heartily recommend "The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam" to everyone... your education about Islam through history is not complete until you read it.
Oh, and you can get to know Jihadwatch.com... that's another interesting source of unvarnished truth...
Or, watch "Islam - What The West Needs to Know"... it makes the point that true Islam is NOT only a religion... it is a SOCIAL ORDER, and one is inseparable from the other. You can see the film at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyYoAoHVOFQ&hd=1
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Dinadan
Message Board Member
Username: Dinadan
Post Number: 116
Registered: 11-2010
| | Posted on Saturday, February 12, 2011 - 12:21 pm: |
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As for us being on Islamic soil, all Islamic lands were once of another religion, just as the lands Christians occupy had other religions before Christ. Generally, Christianity spread by more or less peaceful conversion, while Islam spread by conquest. Remember that in A.D 732 the Islamics had conquered all of North Africa, almost all of Iberia, and a good part of France, (all Christian lands, by the way) when they were turned back at the Battle of Tours in France. On the East end of the Mediterranean Sea the Islamics conquered the Christian lands between Arabia and Turkey, and in 1453 completed the conquest of Constantinople, a stronghold of Christianity at the time. So I do not worry in the least about us being Islamic land, it is Islamic by right of conquest, and if someone else conquers it, then to the victor go the spoils |
Westerly1965
Message Board Member
Username: Westerly1965
Post Number: 467
Registered: 09-2010
| | Posted on Saturday, February 12, 2011 - 12:25 pm: |
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Doug I understand the history but don't care to debate whether or not what was done in the first and second crusades was correct. The only point I was making was that "recent annoyances" (the last 100 years) have caused alot of our "current" problems. Wanna know why Osama Bin Laden doesn't like us? 'Cause we fed him arms and assistance for years while he was "helping us" fight the soviets and when we were done with him the CIA tossed him aside like a used up piece of trash...that would piss you off wouldn't it?
I understand that the Muslim hatred for the west goes far deeper then that. But really other then for the purposes of a religious debate that information is not all that useful. If the people were more educated as a whole on some of the things our government has done while "helping other nations" it would be easier for alot of them to understand the "current" hatred and anti west push by the Muslims. It would also help wake them up to the "peoples" we should be keeping a much closer eye on. |
Mndoug
Message Board Member
Username: Mndoug
Post Number: 301
Registered: 12-2010
| | Posted on Saturday, February 12, 2011 - 12:33 pm: |
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WESTERLY --> I'll debate you until the cows come home on this one... The point that *I* was making is that your point about "the last 100 years causing a lot of our current problems" is just not right. It's exactly what our western mindset leads us to think ("Gee, we're reasonable... they're just like us, so they must be reasonable too... so we must have done something to piss them off... gee, what did we do... oh, I know, we abused them during the past 100 years.) WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG.
You say that understanding "Islam's deep hatred for the West" isn't useful, but understanding the bad things that our government has done in the name of "helping" people IS?
C'mon... the topic is ISLAM, and why we have a conflict... understanding the West's history with Islam is VERY IMPORTANT... in fact, VASTLY more important than embracing a misguided notion that "we are getting what we deserve around the world" because our government has been such a bad actor.
Something just came to mind... may I ask you, what does the 1965 in your name represent?
With respect... |
Westerly1965
Message Board Member
Username: Westerly1965
Post Number: 469
Registered: 09-2010
| | Posted on Saturday, February 12, 2011 - 12:47 pm: |
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Doug you can ask but with or without respect I don't really think its any of your business.
That said as I stated above I have no interest in a religious debate regarding why Islam hates us you are preaching to the choir. I KNOW, my point was that most people don't care and don't take the time to learn the history you are professing. I am not saying its wrong I am just stating a fact. I never said we are getting what we deserve for the way we acted and I would appreciate if you didn't put words in my mouth. The point I was making was simply that for alot of people in this country it might be a whole lot easier to explain the problems of the last 100 years and why they may cause Islam to hate us then to try and explain the last 1000 years. If that gets them thinking and they want to research the last 1000 years GREAT! If not that's ok to because the last 1000 years are really not relevant to our current problem. The last 100 years are really not relevant to our problem for that matter! What is relevant to our problem is the simple fact that many people (rightly or wrongly) and mostly through lack of knowledge simply don't understand that Islam hates the west and will do whatever they need to to further their goals in destroying us. IMHO it matters not how we get them to understand that the religion hates the west only that they realize that they are not the peaceful worshipers that many of Islam would like us to believe. |
Heyjoe
Message Board Member
Username: Heyjoe
Post Number: 1184
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Saturday, February 12, 2011 - 12:52 pm: |
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"Generally, Christianity spread by more or less peaceful conversion"
The indians in the americas, the natives of oceania, the celts and other people who were pagans in europe might not agree with that statement |
Westerly1965
Message Board Member
Username: Westerly1965
Post Number: 470
Registered: 09-2010
| | Posted on Saturday, February 12, 2011 - 12:58 pm: |
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LOL good point Heyjoe history works both ways.. |
Therevjay
Message Board Member
Username: Therevjay
Post Number: 264
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Saturday, February 12, 2011 - 02:53 pm: |
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I'm with "Dbcooper222". |
Westerly1965
Message Board Member
Username: Westerly1965
Post Number: 474
Registered: 09-2010
| | Posted on Saturday, February 12, 2011 - 02:57 pm: |
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He makes a good point doesn't he Therevjay... |
Flyinbiker2001
Message Board Member
Username: Flyinbiker2001
Post Number: 80
Registered: 09-2010
| | Posted on Sunday, February 13, 2011 - 05:43 am: |
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The only point of my post Is that we are not going to see a quick or easy end to this.No war in history has ever been won leaving the enemy armed or alive it dont work that way.One can not fight a PC War,this will come back and bite us in tha ass |
Mndoug
Message Board Member
Username: Mndoug
Post Number: 303
Registered: 12-2010
| | Posted on Sunday, February 13, 2011 - 08:12 am: |
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WESTERLY --> You're right, the significance of "1965" in your handle is not my business. I just thought that if it was an indication of your birth year, it might help me understand where you're coming from, just as the fact that I was born in 1954 might help you understand my points. No big deal.
I don't think I was putting words in your mouth - your words were:
"If the people were more educated as a whole on some of the things our government has done while "helping other nations" it would be easier for alot of them to understand the "current" hatred and anti west push by the Muslims."
I thought I took that the way you meant it, but am willing to chalk it up as as one of those "electronic misunderstandings."
Such is the modern age. |
Tommyguns
Message Board Member
Username: Tommyguns
Post Number: 104
Registered: 06-2009
| | Posted on Sunday, February 13, 2011 - 09:50 am: |
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Islam is evil. There, I stated MY opinion, no one else's. |
Mndoug
Message Board Member
Username: Mndoug
Post Number: 308
Registered: 12-2010
| | Posted on Sunday, February 13, 2011 - 09:55 am: |
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And very succinctly, too!  |
Redhawk4
Message Board Member
Username: Redhawk4
Post Number: 1891
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Sunday, February 13, 2011 - 11:40 am: |
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Muslims are NOT our enemy!!! - I find it easier to believe in Santa Claus than that. |
Wildtim
Message Board Member
Username: Wildtim
Post Number: 175
Registered: 01-2011
| | Posted on Sunday, February 13, 2011 - 11:42 am: |
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I understand exactly where the rise of fundamental Islam is coming from. Just because I understand the why's pf what they do does not make what they do something I will not oppose with everything I have. For example I also understand the origins of the antisemitism that led to the slaughter of WWII. Just like in that case understanding evil does not mean that you don't have to irradiate it.
I'm with Ted Nuggent on this one his strategy is: "bomb them until the rubble bounces." |
Pietro
Message Board Member
Username: Pietro
Post Number: 57
Registered: 08-2009
| | Posted on Sunday, February 13, 2011 - 12:31 pm: |
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Hey, look at it as a franchise opportunity - a chance to start your own business.
Manufacture landmines that look like prayer mats.
It'll do well.
The prophets will go through the roof.
. |
Dbcooper222
Message Board Member
Username: Dbcooper222
Post Number: 7
Registered: 12-2010
| | Posted on Sunday, February 13, 2011 - 04:15 pm: |
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There has been some nasty stuff done in Gods name, Christianity for lack of a better word "evolved" past the inquisition and crusade type mentallity and the new Testament took it past killing someone for wearing clothes made from two diffenet fibers or stoning someone for planting two different crop side by side. I hope that the same will happen with Islam before we reach the point that it's and all out war. Certianly some feel we already are engaged in that battle but not all.
A lot of the problem is how things are interprutted by those who have their own aggenda, wishing more to control their own people and insure the own position of power by sowing discord.
Take the burka for instance. In the time of Mohummad the local villages were overrun with women of , shall we say, less than outstanding moral fiber selling the one item they had to any and all who had the funds, advertising thier wares by wearing less than Barbara Eden in Major Nelsons den. For a woman of faith to avoid taunts and offers for her "Wares" and general groppings they were told to cover themselves modestly and travel in the company of a male family member. A solution to a problem at that time and place has come to be the burka and inhuman acts of violence against their own women.
And by the same token we have the Westboro Baptist church protesting at funerals of our fallen soldiers because "God hates fags." I'm not sure how they manage to equate the two but they are just as much the enemy to me as Osamma and his pack of clowns. |
Mndoug
Message Board Member
Username: Mndoug
Post Number: 311
Registered: 12-2010
| | Posted on Sunday, February 13, 2011 - 04:29 pm: |
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DB: Yep... I've pointed out myself that even in the Christian era there have been some pretty fierce proponents of the faith out there... such as the Spanish Inquisition, the Conquistadors, etc., etc. I was about to type "every religion goes through the violent phase," but... now that I think about it, I'm not sure about Buddhism or the eastern religions.
Regardless, Islam seems to have retained the championship belt for "most violent religion" for many many decades, if not centuries! |
Wildtim
Message Board Member
Username: Wildtim
Post Number: 177
Registered: 01-2011
| | Posted on Sunday, February 13, 2011 - 04:35 pm: |
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quote:There has been some nasty stuff done in Gods name, Christianity for lack of a better word "evolved" past the inquisition and crusade type mentallity and the new Testament took it past killing someone for wearing clothes made from two diffenet fibers or stoning someone for planting two different crop side by side. I hope that the same will happen with Islam before we reach the point that it's and all out war. Certianly some feel we already are engaged in that battle but not all.
Christianity actually had to warped over centuries to ever reach the point where the inquisition happened. Even then the worst excesses of the inquisition were done without the sanction of the church at that time.
Everything else you list is ancient Jewish custom that was eliminated by his followers as soon as Christ started teaching and has never been a part of Christianity.
Islam was founded by a guy who personally killed and order killed in the name of his own religion. How you get past that I don't know. The doctrine preached by the terrorists does match up with the core teachings of Islam both as written and as practiced by the founder of their religion, they just have greater potential for mayhem now.
The Burka is just a symbol and the history of it does nothing to explain the foundation al inequality between the sexes that is taught in this religion.
quote:And by the same token we have the Westboro Baptist church protesting at funerals of our fallen soldiers because "God hates fags." I'm not sure how they manage to equate the two but they are just as much the enemy to me as Osamma and his pack of clowns.
They are just as much the enemy, but there is no doctrinal Christian explanation for their actions and every christian condemns them. On the other hand none of the heads of the major sects of Islam condemned as wrong the World Trade Center bombing. |
Mndoug
Message Board Member
Username: Mndoug
Post Number: 313
Registered: 12-2010
| | Posted on Sunday, February 13, 2011 - 04:41 pm: |
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Yes, and as disgusting as the Westboro people are, even invoking their name begs the pointing out of a huge difference...
They yell and carry signs... and do most Christians, even when their religious symbol are covered with dung and submerged in urine...
Islamic fundamentalists murder and maim - if you "blaspheme" in their eyes by doing so little as draw the wrong cartoon or write the wrong words or in the case of a female, wear the wrong clothing.
Perhaps the passage of time will allow Islam to sort itself out as a "religion of peace." But from what can see, the group that has been getting all the headlines are dragging it (at least the PERCEPTION) of it in the wrong direction. |
Dwalk
Message Board Member
Username: Dwalk
Post Number: 181
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 15, 2011 - 10:15 am: |
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Islam most certainly IS our enemy. 3000 dead American civilian children, men and women on 9/11 alone attest to that.
Unfortunately, we westerners have, for far too long, allowed ourselves to be lead by feckless and false leftist moonbats. They gave us defeat in Vietnam. They blame America and Christianity for all of the world's ills, while whitewashing Islam, the religion of beheading.
Islam teaches that it's okay to lie to, cheat, steal from, rape, and murder 'infidels' because infidels are, according to the Koran, scum. So why are we surprised when, after we let the UN, the US Dept of State, and assorted leftist immigration advocates, bring in tens of thousands of Somali Muslims to the US, we get stuff such as:
-29 members of the Somali Outlaws, Somali Mafia, and Lady Outlaws have been indicted for trafficking in sex slaves in Minnesota and Tennessee
-a Somalian in Atlanta, after leaving his mosque, stole a car, entered a Baptist church and tried to sexually assault a woman, then stole a truck and flipped it over during the police chase
-Mohammed Abdi Yusuf, a Somalian taxi-driver in St. Louis, was funneling money to al-Shabaab, a Muslim terrorist group
-Somalian Muslims in Emporia, KS, demanded their employer, Tyson Foods, give them special breaks for prayer, and for their holiday, Eid al-Fitr
-Muslim meat packers in Grand Island, Nebraska, got special time off for their prayers which caused resentment among the Latino co-workers
It's like leftists are doing a Cloward-Piven/Alinsky strategy of bringing about crisis to crash our form of government. |
Buford_efurd
Message Board Member
Username: Buford_efurd
Post Number: 73
Registered: 07-2009
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 15, 2011 - 11:27 am: |
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Well said, Dwalk. 100% true. |
Lohman446
Message Board Member
Username: Lohman446
Post Number: 331
Registered: 10-2010
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 15, 2011 - 02:18 pm: |
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I hope I am never held accountable for the actions of 100 (1,000, million) people who happen to share my race.... |
Tommyguns
Message Board Member
Username: Tommyguns
Post Number: 108
Registered: 06-2009
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 15, 2011 - 02:29 pm: |
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You already are, 446. Just go to some of those Middle Eastern countries and tell everyone you are a proud American. |
Lohman446
Message Board Member
Username: Lohman446
Post Number: 332
Registered: 10-2010
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 15, 2011 - 02:57 pm: |
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Good thing we are leading by example into a better world... Oh wait.... |
Redhawk4
Message Board Member
Username: Redhawk4
Post Number: 1895
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 15, 2011 - 03:31 pm: |
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We are certainly leading by a much better example, even if still far from perfect, than our Muslim "brothers", or the streets of the US would be filled with the bodies of Muslims. To make such a comparison is just ridiculous, I'm tired of people using the shortcomings of our society or the events by so called Christians of the past to justify or excuse the actions of supporters of Islam who care nothing for us other than our forced conversion or death. I don't excuse the shortcomings of our country or society and I'm darn sure I'm not going to get drawn into excusing the inexcusable behavior of others. We don't make up for our faults or injustices, by thinking warm fuzzy thoughts about those who are worse. |
Wildtim
Message Board Member
Username: Wildtim
Post Number: 187
Registered: 01-2011
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 15, 2011 - 03:37 pm: |
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Not to be egotistical but we as Americans are. We have defined the modern free state and that is why we, specifically, are seen as a threat to the muslim world. They know they can not exist let alone rule in a world that contains the kind of democratic freedom we exemplify. |
Redhawk4
Message Board Member
Username: Redhawk4
Post Number: 1897
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 15, 2011 - 05:00 pm: |
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That's a good point Wildtim, when state and religion are not seperated, you don't want true democracy because you need to be able to force the belief system onto the people. |
Silvershooter
Message Board Member
Username: Silvershooter
Post Number: 331
Registered: 06-2010
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 15, 2011 - 05:23 pm: |
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"share my race"
just to clarify Lohman, it's not about race. there are african muslims, there are arab muslims, there are asian muslims.
we have no choice about our race. we do have a choice about our Faith. Unless you happen to live in a muslim country that is. that's the whole point. they want to dominate the globe by force.
if you are born muslim but leave the religion you are free game for murder. sure, some muslim areas allow small pockets of Christians to exist...in order to be street sweepers, taxed, and abused. more are getting murdered every day though.
Again, I say don't hate the muslims but pity those caught up in a religion of hate and delusion. They are going to self-implode with violence. We just have to watch God do His work. They are still God's children and I believe some will see the Light and be saved; but few.
Many more Christians will unfortunately loose their heads(literally) at Islamic hands. The religion of Peace. |
Moderndayedison
Message Board Member
Username: Moderndayedison
Post Number: 498
Registered: 04-2010
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 15, 2011 - 09:15 pm: |
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"Thank you...come again."
--MDE
. |
Lohman446
Message Board Member
Username: Lohman446
Post Number: 333
Registered: 10-2010
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 16, 2011 - 05:49 am: |
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The hard part about this, from the outside looking in, is how similiar the two religions are. A surprising amount of Christian denominations questions the concept of the trinity (look it up, you will be surprised).
Essentially the things in question are the trinity / perfection of Christ vs Christ as a prophet and the role of Mohammed as a prophet - perhaps the final prophet I will confess my understanding is not exactly clear on that.
Both demand monotheism and from what I understand reference the same God. It really is a shame what happens in the name of religion |
Red14
Message Board Member
Username: Red14
Post Number: 1544
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 16, 2011 - 06:15 am: |
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Christ never took a young teenager for his wife, raped a young teenager(s), or murdered people.
They may have had the same father (God). So did Cain and Abel. |
Tranquilo
Message Board Member
Username: Tranquilo
Post Number: 465
Registered: 06-2009
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 16, 2011 - 06:44 am: |
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"Both demand monotheism and from what I understand reference the same God."(Lohman446)
Christians do not worship allah - allah is none other than satan trying to be equal to God; that is the sin that got satan thrown out of Heaven. By the way, satan doesn't care what religion you believe in as long as it doesn't provide you with salvation through Jesus Christ -the King of kings and Lord of lords. |
Wildtim
Message Board Member
Username: Wildtim
Post Number: 188
Registered: 01-2011
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 16, 2011 - 07:52 am: |
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quote:
Message Board Member
Username: Lohman446
The hard part about this, from the outside looking in, is how similiar the two religions are. A surprising amount of Christian denominations questions the concept of the trinity (look it up, you will be surprised).
Essentially the things in question are the trinity / perfection of Christ vs Christ as a prophet and the role of Mohammed as a prophet - perhaps the final prophet I will confess my understanding is not exactly clear on that.
Both demand monotheism and from what I understand reference the same God. It really is a shame what happens in the name of religion
Not even close. I know of no Christian denomination, other than a few whacko individual churches with no sanction, that don't recognize the validity of the trinity or recognize Jesus as the holy son of God.
The issue of the trinity aside (which really can't be done as it is pretty key to the whole Christian belief system) there is not similarity at all.
There is a simple comparison.
When you think of WWJD "what would Jesus do" you think of living simply peacefully and forgiving people. When you look him up this is pretty much what he did.
When you think WWMD "what would Mohamed do" you have to grab a sword and start taking heads. again look it up.
The only similarity they have is that the both, supposedly, rose out of Jewish monotheistic belief. Though even then they treat that heritage completely differently. Christians study Judaism in order to understand God and our own history better (I've actually met many Jews who know less of their own faith than I do, thanks to my Christian education) . Muslims revial the Jews with a hatred that is beyond sanction of their own history.
Again no where in The Christian Bible is there a directive to convert by the sword. It quite simply isn't in the book. Where Islam requires it, not suggests, or sanctions, but requires it.
In another post you claim to be a member of a Christian church. I suggest that either your church is following false teachings and is not really a Christian church or you pay just about as much attention to the preacher as Obama. You quite simply can not even attend a Christian church and make the claims you do.
Christianity is the belief that Jesus is the Son of God, the Jewish Messiah, Who came to earth to Save people from their sins. That is it that's the core belief, the whole enchilada, nothing else is as important to a Christian. Going to church, the whole worship service, missions, potlucks, Cathedrals, choirs, all the visible trappings people picture when you say "church" really don't matter much in the great scheme. They are ways for the Community of believers in that core truth to come together and help one another, reach out to help others, and simply teach people about the one core truth above. Christians do all that for 2 reasons. One: Jesus asked us to tell everyone (not persuade, or kill if we couldn't persuade) but just to tell everyone what he has accomplished. Two: because when someone has done for you what Jesus has for everyone and you know it and can feel it, you like to spend time in church and study getting to know him and trying to be half the man he was.
In light of the above compare Christian belief and the demands it places on you with Islam. You will find no similarity and be able to see clearly that Islam is clearly not something the same God would introduce into the world, it is simply a human institution for control of people. |
Uncle_lee
Message Board Member
Username: Uncle_lee
Post Number: 615
Registered: 09-2009
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 16, 2011 - 08:06 am: |
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Wildtim,
AMEN!
(and that's that) |
Redhawk4
Message Board Member
Username: Redhawk4
Post Number: 1898
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 16, 2011 - 08:57 am: |
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Lohman, you have the viewpoint that has allowed the Muslim problem to become so bad. Stop excusing the unexcusable. Why keep defending people who care nothing for you?, or even the fact that you are trying to defend them. You'll lose your head as fast as anyone else here, if they have their way. |
Lohman446
Message Board Member
Username: Lohman446
Post Number: 334
Registered: 10-2010
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 16, 2011 - 09:08 am: |
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WildTim: Unitarianism (this is the best example I think), Gnosticism, Universalism (arguably). There is a reason that the creed that came out of the council of Nicea to unite the Roman Empire is so strong about the Trinity, it was a pretty hotly debated issue in the early Christian church. There are still those churchs that question the concept of the trinity. I know that it might not be the popular view, but its a view that is more widely held than you indicate.
Redhawk, I don't defend those who would use violence to accomplish their goals. Yes, I know WildTim is going to get out his "all things Islam" point of view, demand I read small portions of a book and interpert (I would argue out of context) it one way. I also fully acknowledge that there are people, TODAY, who are in fact guilty of what he claims all Muslims are guilty of. I would simply point out this is not the case and judging an entire group by the actions of the few is wrong. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe it could cost me my life. I *need* to hold certain beleifs in the good of humanity at the core as a whole (with exceptions) for my own personal reasons.
I encourage you to look up Unitarianism, I am actually reading the book "Our Unitarian Gospel" right now, and it has some interesting points. I read the Koran to so don't insist because I read the book I accept all of it. Look up the concept of the Jefferson Bible, I like it and it offers some good incite, especially if you can find an annodated copy. Questioning the concept of the Trinity is not the same as questioning the teachings of Christ or the greatness of them. |
Lohman446
Message Board Member
Username: Lohman446
Post Number: 335
Registered: 10-2010
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 16, 2011 - 09:19 am: |
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I would ask the question about WWJD as such: are the attitudes and solutions often proposed in regards to the "Muslim problem" what Jesus would do? |
Ricart
Message Board Member
Username: Ricart
Post Number: 223
Registered: 06-2010
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 16, 2011 - 09:47 am: |
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Lohman, there is of course no way to debate a person of faith, I believe the word "Faith" can be defined as the belief in something that cannot be proven. I have no doubt, there was folks such as you that felt the Romans were no problem in the beginning. They later became know as "slaves". At first, the Native Americans saw no problem with the foreigners that came to the Americas. They were either killed of confined to reservations. There were many that say the Nazi party as confined to Germany were no problem. They later became known as "German held territory" or participants of WW2. I wonder if you ever served in the U.S. military. And, frankly, I don't really care if you die for your beliefs as long as your beliefs don't take me with you.
Those that practice the Muslim/religious beliefs are our enemy period. Live with it. |
Lohman446
Message Board Member
Username: Lohman446
Post Number: 339
Registered: 10-2010
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 16, 2011 - 09:54 am: |
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I was declined for the military (something about less than 400/20 vision) though I did try to enlist. Ricart - what is the solution? Execute anyone who professes a beleif in Islam? Is that if they accept there is truth or wisdom to some degree? Is it 100%, 90%, 10%?
I accept that fudamentalist Islam is a problem. I would argue so would fundamentalist Christianity (or Judaism, or most other religion) if it were practiced to the degree unchecked by society as fundamentalist Islam is.
I read a paper the other day that the author listed 53 factors she felt supported her position. I happen to disagree with said position (it was not religous) I found two of those arguments to be accurate, logical, and not a circular argument. Does the existence of the other 51 items make those worthless? |
Red14
Message Board Member
Username: Red14
Post Number: 1546
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 16, 2011 - 10:27 am: |
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The best way to reach a solution is to resist Sharia Law, remain vigilant, and stay true to our Constitution. |
Lohman446
Message Board Member
Username: Lohman446
Post Number: 340
Registered: 10-2010
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 16, 2011 - 10:51 am: |
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Fair enough. You know one of the problems I have in where we try to help set up democracies is we are setting it up to fail. We think we are modeling them after ourselves. We are a Constitutional Republic with strong dependence on individual rights and local elections. Theoretically with strong checks on federal government. This is what makes the US unique (The New Road to Serfdom, a warning letter to the United States is a good read). We do not demand that these democraacies follow that lead in return for the aid we give them. If we give aid it is reasonable to expect some say in this.
Logically since I support the inherent rights of individuals described described in the Declaration of Independence and the older Causes and Necessities of Taking up Arms and protected by the Constitution, and because I beleive in the inherent worth and dignity of all men and women, I would have a problem with Sharia Law.
That being said I think our foreign policy is screwed up. If we cannot support and "demand" those some protections we need to quit meddling and giving aid. By supporting (essentially) a dictator for the last 30 years in Egypt we have made enemies of the people of Egypt. |
Ricart
Message Board Member
Username: Ricart
Post Number: 224
Registered: 06-2010
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 16, 2011 - 12:31 pm: |
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Lohman, you ask for a solution. No, I don't condone the execution of all Muslims in this country. However, I see nothing wrong with deporting all that are not U.S. citizens. (less to keep up with) And, while at it, deport all folks that are in this country illegally. (We got plenty of those here in Texas, as well as The People's Republik of Kalifornia, and Arizona. Makes even less to keep up with, as well as I would know my tax money was not going to educate future terrorists. (Remember, the head Japanese admiral that led the attack on Pearl Harbor was educated in America) We have born in the :U.S. of A. young folks that should be using our schools. Oh yeah, declare the ALCU a terrorist organization. While non of this will solve all problems, it's a start. |
Wildtim
Message Board Member
Username: Wildtim
Post Number: 193
Registered: 01-2011
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 16, 2011 - 12:39 pm: |
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quote:WildTim: Unitarianism (this is the best example I think), Gnosticism, Universalism (arguably). There is a reason that the creed that came out of the council of Nicea to unite the Roman Empire is so strong about the Trinity, it was a pretty hotly debated issue in the early Christian church. There are still those churchs that question the concept of the trinity. I know that it might not be the popular view, but its a view that is more widely held than you indicate.
Unitatarinism is just a revival of a set of beliefs that were declared incorrect way back in 325. and have no support in the bible.
By the way all the biblical analysis is that Jesus did claim Godhead, and this from secular psychologists as well as biblical scholars.
As for the other two you mentioned...I did leave an out for Wacko churches.
read your bible, discuss what it means, think about it, pray about it. Do these things and you will find yourself coming to the same conclusions the church fathers did in 325, there is a lot of loony false doctrine out there. Heck, that whole snake church thing is based off of a single verse that the founder of that church misinterpreted because he had only read a translation of the bible and had no understanding of context. |
Lohman446
Message Board Member
Username: Lohman446
Post Number: 342
Registered: 10-2010
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 16, 2011 - 12:46 pm: |
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Ahh, but claiming to be Godhead does not prove the trinity theory, it requires a seperation. The trinity concept is not as simple and uncontestable as it is made out - it requires faith (which is a good thing in my opinion). Accept it as a matter of faith if you will, but not accepting it does not make anyone require the "whacko" out. Jefferson was a Unitarian, Newton was, and there are plenty of other names out there. I heard a Unitarian Universalist sum up its relation to "main line" churches once by simply stating "we practice what you preach". If one follows the example of Christ (Ghandi, Buddha, etc) in this life it will not harm anyone regardless of motivation.
Ricart, I agree with you on making certain those here are here legally - to be legal seems like a good first step to live anywhere. I would not argue that we need to address that issue before we discuss further imigration reform. |
Wildtim
Message Board Member
Username: Wildtim
Post Number: 194
Registered: 01-2011
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 16, 2011 - 12:51 pm: |
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One thing people forget, all the time, with regards to our foreign policy is that it is not about saving the world or helping other countries. Or it shouldn't be. It is about preserving and furthering the interests of the US and its citizens, that's it.
If it is in our interests to befriend Saddam Hussein like it was in the 80's to harm Russia we would be stupid not to do so. It was also in our interest in the 80's to be a friend to Osama Bin Laden, again he was a royal pain to our greatest enemy the Soviet Union. Sometime the enemy of my enemy is smart foreign policy.
Sometime we support people who are not all that nice simply because they keep things stable and stability serves our interest. Frankly $1 gas is far more important to me than the democratic freedom of a serf a thousand miles away That make me less than a nice person but it doesn't make me wrong. Also it just could be that crushing that serf so I can have $1 a gallon gas might be all that keeps China from actually going imperialistic and spreading across the globe. Foreign policy is funny that way.
As soon as our government starts worrying about the quality of life for anyone living in another country as much as it does mine it is no longer serving the interests of its citizens and should be replaced, immediately.
We still have a by the people, but we are quickly losing for the people, and we are long past of the people. |
Heyjoe
Message Board Member
Username: Heyjoe
Post Number: 1198
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 16, 2011 - 01:54 pm: |
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I would be the first to throw anyone out of this country who is here illegally. I know that Islam as taught and practiced is a danger to our way of life and in fact our actual lives.
I do have to say though that some of you miss the irony in your own statements. You condemn Islam ( and rightly so) for being a religion intolerant and homicidal toward other belief systems (guilty as charged) but then profess your own beliefs that only the brand or tradition or way of practicing christianity that YOU follow is the one true christian religion. Everyone else is deluded by satan, mistaken, will not be saved. Less than a righteous person.
Except for not currently cutting off heads or burning people at the stake, there is a lot more, with those absolutist beliefs, in common with the intolerance of Islam than some Christians would like to admit.
Also ironic is that the same people who profess to be willing to die for the constitution or who have in fact already put their lives in danger to protect the constitution and who cherish the second amendment, as do I, are so willing to throw out parts of the first amendment, freedom of religion, freedom of speech, freedom of association, if we do not agree with the people who are exercizing those rights.
I have no use for Islam myself, but i also dont want to have my morality and life legislated by bible thumpers in this country either. |
Heyjoe
Message Board Member
Username: Heyjoe
Post Number: 1199
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 16, 2011 - 02:00 pm: |
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"If it is in our interests to befriend Saddam Hussein like it was in the 80's to harm Russia we would be stupid not to do so. It was also in our interest in the 80's to be a friend to Osama Bin Laden, again he was a royal pain to our greatest enemy the Soviet Union. Sometime the enemy of my enemy is smart foreign policy."
Short term intersts maybe and even then for only for certain special interests in this country. Many times not for the common good. Long term these policies and this type of short term thinking have been a disaster to this country. Arming people who with a little research it isnt rocket science to figure out may soon turn those same weapons we gave them against us, is never good policy. We need to greatly reduce our foreign entanglements and take care of this country and its citizens first. |
Westerly1965
Message Board Member
Username: Westerly1965
Post Number: 486
Registered: 09-2010
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 16, 2011 - 02:05 pm: |
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Heyjoe....well said you put into words something I have thought alot about but have never been able to word correctly and I thank you for that. And please nobody misunderstand me and think that I am targeting you or your beliefs believe me this board is by no means the only place I see this. The reality of it is however that Heyjoe has hit this one smack on the head.....we cannot in good conscious defend our 2nd amendment and forget the others because they do not help our cause. I agree 100% that if you are here illegally you should be removed immediately and I have my own ideas on how to protect our borders...(some of which even my very conservative friends think are to extreme). But we must always remember that to stand by this country and our constitution we must stand behind all of it whether we like it or not... |
Quickdraw
Message Board Member
Username: Quickdraw
Post Number: 381
Registered: 11-2009
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 16, 2011 - 02:07 pm: |
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Questioning the trinity is indeed questioning Jesus and his teachings as well as the Godhead to which he is a part of. |
Lohman446
Message Board Member
Username: Lohman446
Post Number: 343
Registered: 10-2010
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 16, 2011 - 02:18 pm: |
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Nah, its questioning the teachings of the Catholic church and the "findings" of the council of Nicea. Regardless, the first amendment allows me the right to do just that. I don't question the fact Christ walked the earth nor do I question that he provided a great example for those who follow.
Christ can be divine without the trinity. Really, step back from the Nicene Creed for a moment and the trinity is logically hard to wrap your head around. I do not mean to say it is wrong but what so many propose as so simple is not.
HeyJoe, I appreciate your sentiments, they are well worded and a reasonable statement.
I think there are good parts to Islam, I agree that fundamentalist Islam (which is what we often discuss) has issues. Might I throw out a lot of it - sure, but I do not profess to be Islamic. |
Heyjoe
Message Board Member
Username: Heyjoe
Post Number: 1203
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 16, 2011 - 02:37 pm: |
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"Oh yeah, declare the ALCU a terrorist organization."
While im on a roll i have to say that i think this statement is rediculous on its face and statements like this that compare something we dont agree with or are in opposition to as terrorists waters down the awful meaning of the word terrorist. A terrorist wants to terrorize you by attempting to kill or maim as many people as possible that they have a real or imagined grievance with. Terrorism is real, it is a constant threat now and for the immediate future. To call people terrorists who have different views of freedom of religion or freedom of speech as you haveis inaccurate, inflammatory and counter to the meaning of the constitution which we as gun enthusiasts profess to cherish. People who bomb and collapse a 110 story building on your head are terrorists, people who have different views than you are political opponents. Stop watering down the word terrorist until it loses all of its meaning. |
Tranquilo
Message Board Member
Username: Tranquilo
Post Number: 467
Registered: 06-2009
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 16, 2011 - 02:42 pm: |
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"And Jesus, when He was baptized, went straightway out of the water: and lo, the heavens were opened unto Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon Him: and lo a voice from heaven, saying, this is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." (Mathew 3:16-17)
"And God said, let us make man in our image, after our likeness....." (Genesis 1:26)
I love to tell people about the Good News of Jesus because He has asked me (and all belevers) to do so. I do not do this because I want to force anyone to believe as I do - we are all responsible for the decisions we make. It is my belief that there is a Heaven to gain through Jesus and a Hell that can be avoided.
Choose well my friends, choose well. |
Bud
Message Board Member
Username: Bud
Post Number: 888
Registered: 10-2009
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 16, 2011 - 02:56 pm: |
|
http://collive.com/show_news.rtx?id=8982 |
Tranquilo
Message Board Member
Username: Tranquilo
Post Number: 468
Registered: 06-2009
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 16, 2011 - 04:33 pm: |
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That is an amazing video, Bud - thanks for posting it! |
Dbcooper222
Message Board Member
Username: Dbcooper222
Post Number: 8
Registered: 12-2010
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 16, 2011 - 04:35 pm: |
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Mn: Regardless, Islam seems to have retained the championship belt for "most violent religion" for many many decades, if not centuries!
A belt they won from the Christains at the end of the crusades.
You pointed out earlier the importance of the history of Islam with the west, the history goes back much further than the treatment they recieved from the US, most goes back to before there was a US.
I don't have a dog in this hunt other than if there is to be an all out war I'd just as soon fight it before my kids have to.
I usaully stay out of the religion posts because :
Opinions are rarely if ever affected
My god is right yours is wrong, my religion is the only true one.
There is usually an "expert" on the other religion whose expertise was gained by listening to a member of his religion explain the other. (especially true of pagan religions)
The threads are usually starterd to start a pissin match, the sides chosen before the first word typed.
The other guy is summed up in broad strokes,
Broad brushes paint lousy pictures especially if they are black and white paints. |
Bud
Message Board Member
Username: Bud
Post Number: 889
Registered: 10-2009
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 16, 2011 - 05:43 pm: |
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"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out�because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out�because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out�because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me�and there was no one left to speak out for me." |
Ricart
Message Board Member
Username: Ricart
Post Number: 226
Registered: 06-2010
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 16, 2011 - 06:17 pm: |
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Heyjoe, first sentence of "Terrorism" definition, Wikipedia, "Terrorism is the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion. Now, tell me that the threats of the ACLU to sue over whatever they find not of their liking such as posting the Ten Commandments in Government buildings is not coercion. Lets stick to all definitions, not only yours. |
Heyjoe
Message Board Member
Username: Heyjoe
Post Number: 1206
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 16, 2011 - 09:31 pm: |
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threatening to sue over the posting of the ten commandments in a public building is a systematic use of terror? you find their threat to sue terrorizes you? it puts you in fear of your life or safety? following the country's established system of settling disputes, the legal system, is an act of coercion and terror? because you dont agree with people who use legal means to try to achieve what they believe is the intent of the constitution be they right or wrong in that belief does not make it terrorism. is peacefully assembling to demonstrate and try to effect change terrorism also? is the aclu threatening or trying to bomb, burn, behead or maim you in order to coerce you? again i will say that this rhetorical use of the word to score cheap political points and inflame passions is a watering down of the real and present danger we all live with today. |
Moderndayedison
Message Board Member
Username: Moderndayedison
Post Number: 503
Registered: 04-2010
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2011 - 05:06 am: |
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WWKSD (What Would King Solomon Do?)
That is the Billion Dollar question.
--MDE
. |
Quickdraw
Message Board Member
Username: Quickdraw
Post Number: 383
Registered: 11-2009
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2011 - 07:05 am: |
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He would write Ecclesiastes at the end of his life and tell his son that all his pursuits would amount to nothing. Remaining faithful to the covenant God should be the one and only pursuit of man. |
Ricart
Message Board Member
Username: Ricart
Post Number: 227
Registered: 06-2010
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2011 - 08:00 am: |
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Heyjoe, Looks like I rattled your chain a bit. I would have thought that my original post "oh yeah, re the ACLU' would have been taken by most as a "tongue in cheek" opinion. After your lengthy reply, I couldn't resist taking it a step further. With my background, I think I have had enough classes and hands on experience to know what a terrorist is. I also know ostrich does not really stick it's head in a hole at the sight of danger, however, figuratively speaking, a lot of humans seem to. |
Redhawk4
Message Board Member
Username: Redhawk4
Post Number: 1903
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2011 - 09:12 am: |
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When my wifes ex called me up and threatened to kill me & her and said he has a contract out on me, I didn't stop to reflect on what wrongs my ancestors may have done to his, or vice versa, or any of the implications of our different Religious viewpoints. The Police told me this could be construed as a terroristic threat - the definitions were of no consequence, the nature of the threat however was obvious. Accordingly I took action to protect us in the event this came to pass, and still take those precautions, because I believe we are still in danger - always one more drink or one pill away from him coming unglued.
Similarly, the life and welfare of my family has also been threatened, albeit collectively, by Muslim extremists. I also have good reason to believe that some who may claim to be more moderate hold the same views and the "religion" in general has teachings which are at the very least a threat to our liberties and probably our lives. So I will treat them with suspicion and take sensible precautions to stay safe. I could care less who killed or slighted who, a thousand years ago or last week, today and tomorrow is all we can control and no history or religious classes alter the danger we face.
It's a pity that in the days of an overbearing and intrusive Federal Government that they cannot fulfill one of their main obligations which is to ensure our safety and protect our borders. Two of the biggest threats to our country are not being tackled due to political correctness. We can't deal with the Mexicans or Muslims in a sensible or logical way because we allow our hands and common sense to be tied by this PC nonsense. We can argue until the cows come home, and seem to be, about religious viewpoints, definitions of terrorism etc. etc. all we are doing is creating a big smoke screen that obliterates the simple unpleasant truth. |
Lohman446
Message Board Member
Username: Lohman446
Post Number: 345
Registered: 10-2010
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2011 - 09:20 am: |
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What is the sensible and logical way to deal with the Muslims? Stop all illegal immigration and remove those here? Alright, I am with you so far. But what then?
Not allow any visas, passports, or immigrations of people who profess a certain religion? Considering you do not beleive those who profess to be moderate are you going to beleive anyone from that part of the world that professes anything? Can we do this and still be Americans who profess to love freedom? |
Dwalk
Message Board Member
Username: Dwalk
Post Number: 182
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2011 - 09:48 am: |
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Moral relativism can get you killed. Happily, after Pearl Harbor, we didn't sit back and philosophize about which parts of Japanese Imperialism are good, and how not all Nazis are fundamentalists.
Meanwhile, on Feb.9, in a federal court in North Carolina, a guy named Boyd plead guilty on jihad charges. Seems after he converted to Islam, he regarded Americans as enemies. He possessed armor-piercing ammunition and planned to attack US military personnel at Quantico, to, as he put it, "attack the Americans". No warm and fuzzy kumbaya ambiguity in his mind.
On Valentine's Day, in Gabden, Russia, a Muslima suicide bomber murdered 3 people. Here we see that waiting to see if Muslims are actually peaceful (in defiance of what their Koran commands) can prove fatal.
Ask '60 Minutes' reporter Lara Logan about how tiny is the minority and how vast is the majority of peaceful Muslims. She was sexually assaulted recently in Egypt by Muslims shouting, "Jew! Jew!".
Bud is right (see 6 posts above), if we don't start defending ourselves and our families soon, it will be too late. And Tranquilo is right, choosing Jesus is wise. WWJD? Well, He did say buy a sword (I think a NAA mini would be a satisfactory substitute). WWMD? Well, Mohammed 'married' a 6 year old girl (lust), advocated rape (lust), raided caravans (theft), advised lying (bearing false witness), and ordered beheading for thousands of Jews when they refused to convert to his new religion (mass murder).
Choose well. |
Lohman446
Message Board Member
Username: Lohman446
Post Number: 346
Registered: 10-2010
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2011 - 09:52 am: |
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I did not see a solution there. I see a lot of hatred there and judging of entire groups by the actions of a few, but not a solution. The attacks on Muslims after the Oklahoma City bombing seems the result of such things. |
Silvershooter
Message Board Member
Username: Silvershooter
Post Number: 333
Registered: 06-2010
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2011 - 10:23 am: |
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While there may not be any clear or easy solution to the worldwide problem of violent Muslims; one phrase comes to mind: talk softly but carry a big stick.
It would be wise to pursue peace while also preparing for war. Many, not all, Islamic leaders and nations pretend peace and pursue war.
It seems America had to reluctantly fight against and take
away the freedom of millions of Germans. That doesn't mean
we hated or hate the German(I am part German myself), but a small group of axis nations exercised their freedom by bringing enslavement, violence, and murder to others.
The evil political and racial attitudes of some natzis was beaten back. Question is, can the evil political, racial, AND religious attitudes of millions be changed by tolerane and well wishing alone? I think some people only respect those who they fear. Some people can be won over with sugar some require a swift punch. Just some thoughts. |
Lohman446
Message Board Member
Username: Lohman446
Post Number: 347
Registered: 10-2010
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2011 - 10:26 am: |
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I have no qualms with being prepared to meet any violent attack with the same violene response as a nation. I think it may be one of the few true obligations of government to protect its citizens. |
Red14
Message Board Member
Username: Red14
Post Number: 1552
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2011 - 10:50 am: |
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Lohman, would you comment on the events mentioned by Dwalk's points. He makes some good posts. I think Christian churches who protest
at funerals are bad, and some others have strange beliefs, but I know of none who condone rape, or murder-beheading. |
Lohman446
Message Board Member
Username: Lohman446
Post Number: 348
Registered: 10-2010
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2011 - 11:04 am: |
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There are fundamentalist muslims who have taken a poor view (IMO) of the Koran and condone terrible acts. I give you that. For the most part he is discussing the individual acts of people who, IMO, have mental issues. Please note I did not use this to excuse their actions.
Early Islam (and current Islam perhaps more than other religions) has some VERY regretable sides. The Mountain Meadows Massacre is not that far in history either. I am not going to get into "a man professing to be a Muslim in North Carolina" scenarios. Those are individual acts carried out by individuals.
As to what the early church condoned I think you should pause and consider that question. The inquisition, the empirical switching of Rome to Christianity, these were not without many of the acts you ask about. I don't judge modern Christians by them either. If we are discussing only modern times - I give you that Islam has been used (and still is) to help people justify some horrific acts. |
Redhawk4
Message Board Member
Username: Redhawk4
Post Number: 1904
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2011 - 11:11 am: |
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Lohman first we have to acknowledge we have enemies and recognise who they are. Then we need to secure our borders. We will have to use profiling to narrow down our enemies. Airport security is a good example of this, there's no point giving 90 year old Gladys from Idaho Falls a cavity search in the name of some kind of fairness - we have to target and remove the threat. Ultimately we will have to recognise that while being Muslim is technically a religious belief, the realities are more like the Klu Klux Klan on steroids. If it were a club, society or organization spouting the same type of hatred, intolerance and treason (when done on our soil) they would be outlawed and shut down. At some point someone is going to have to decide what a religion really is and/or why under the banner of freedom of religion this sort of thing is tolerated. We cannot expect to defeat an enemy without upsetting a few people, this is a time for what's best for the vast majority.
"Can we do this and still be Americans who profess to love freedom?"
I'm not sure we are agreeing on what the "this" is, but none of us will have freedom if we don't protect it. Freedom for Americans does not require that we extend the same rights to all others, even Americans who fall outside of certain criteria or behaviors. Many Americans are in jail, an obvious restriction of their freedom, but their behavioral choice ended up placing them there. What if they wanted to claim theft was a religion? Not too long ago, and certainly in times of war, being a traitor carried a certain death penalty. Why do we feel we need to extend rights to others who do not qualify for them and who's sole intent is to destroy the giver?
IMO we can take strong action now, or later, but that we will have to act is inevitable. The only difference will be the number of people who will have to die to bring a resolution. Delay will only make the problem worse and force the need for a more drastic solution. |
Lohman446
Message Board Member
Username: Lohman446
Post Number: 349
Registered: 10-2010
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2011 - 11:23 am: |
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I accept it as a religion, though I also accept that there are, currently, a lot of people using it for horrific acts. You know what, I am not even against profiling TO A DEGREE.
Should we, in a revised immigration system, take a second look at anyone wanting to enter from a Middle Eastern country (or Northern Africa)? Yes, it is only logical. However, even if we accept that 70% of Muslims are what they are described as being by some here we still cannot judge all of them as being such.
Pacifism and religious tolerance are not suicide pacts. However I think we are making a mistake of judging entire populations by the actions of a few. If Muslims in this country raise up in violent protest we should be prepared to meet such. If Muslims in this country use other means to destroy "these freedoms which are self evident" then we should resist in any way we think appropriate.
However, I guess I just don't see the same things other seem to see. I don't take every action of every Muslim as a way to decry the entire religion. I hope noone ever does that with my religion, race, ethnicity, etc. |
Bud
Message Board Member
Username: Bud
Post Number: 893
Registered: 10-2009
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2011 - 12:20 pm: |
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If MY family were going somewhere by air and I had a choice of them boarding a plane with some Muslims on it and another one with NO Muslim passengers, I'd have them board the one with no Muslims. Which one would you choose? |
Westerly1965
Message Board Member
Username: Westerly1965
Post Number: 495
Registered: 09-2010
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2011 - 12:30 pm: |
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@Bud I agree with you on that. But that is a personal decision and not really one we can use to inforce law. That said I agree with Redhawk on this one. Take action now or take action later but eventually our hand will be forced on this issue. I believe it would be easier to take a little more action now even if it isn't quite politically correct then have to deal with what "might" become a far more serious situation later. If we can protect ourselves by securing our borders and doing a little non politically correct profiling wouldn't that be easier then having it come to blows on our own soil? And I got news for those Islam boys if they think they are gonna start a fight with us here they are gonna get an ass whoopin' like they haven't seen for many many years....If it comes to blows on our own soil there will be nothing anybody can do to protect any of them. |
Lohman446
Message Board Member
Username: Lohman446
Post Number: 351
Registered: 10-2010
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2011 - 12:49 pm: |
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50 years ago if your family had the choice to eat at a restaurant with African Americans in it or one without I suppose you would have chosen the one without?
Recall, I endorsed profiling as logical in regards to immigration. |
Westerly1965
Message Board Member
Username: Westerly1965
Post Number: 496
Registered: 09-2010
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2011 - 12:52 pm: |
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Hence the reason I said that was a personal decision and not something we could use to inforce law. It doesn't change the rest of my statement.. |
Redhawk4
Message Board Member
Username: Redhawk4
Post Number: 1905
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2011 - 01:55 pm: |
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Lohman, can you remove yourself from the past? Eating in a restaurant, or not 50 years ago with African Americans has nothing to do with the current argument. One is purely to do with racial hatred, the other is to do with being concerned about protecting ourselves against a dangerous and sinister enemy that is hiding behind the protection that was brought in to prevent the attitudes and politics of 50 years ago. Our current concern is with an enemy that has clearly stated the future plans they have for us, obviously that doesn't concern you. We can do something now or just pretend it will go away. If we do that, we will eventually end up with the kind of "civil war" that Westerly talks of. |
Lohman446
Message Board Member
Username: Lohman446
Post Number: 352
Registered: 10-2010
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2011 - 01:58 pm: |
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With all due respect Redhawk white supremacists had all sorts of reasons why integrating was dangerous. I am asking you what the solution is. Is it to outlaw the practice of Islam? In its entirety? Should we assume anyone who follows any portion of the Koran is practicing Islam? It would seem to me that enforcing Sharia law is already illegal in the US and should be dealt with by our current laws, not by making new ones (wow, where have we heard that argument before). |
Wildtim
Message Board Member
Username: Wildtim
Post Number: 199
Registered: 01-2011
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2011 - 02:25 pm: |
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Lohman, Blacks never stood up and said we will kill you and everyone like you, unless you become black so invoking racism just doesn't work.
No we should not outlaw the practice of Islam, We should outlaw the usage of Shiara law by name. It is not Illegal in the US Shiara law was actually used by a judge as his justification for clearing an Islam man of rape charges brought against him by his wife in New Jersey. Obviously if a judge in the US is going to site Shiara law to excuse rape it isn't illegal in the US.
We should also, while we are at it at least apply the same standards to all religions. If I can't wear a cross I don't want to see any Muslim religious symbols allowed. This also has happened, a school teacher got fired for wearing a gold cross necklace to her job.
I of course am a bit biased. After seeing Muslims dancing in the streets of Detroit after 9/11 I have a solution, A draconian unAmerican one but it might be the only proper course with an enemy of a type we have never faced who is perfectly willing to take over our country by bits and pieces slowly if given time. |
Lohman446
Message Board Member
Username: Lohman446
Post Number: 353
Registered: 10-2010
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2011 - 02:45 pm: |
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Yeh, because the Black Panthers did not represent all of black culture, and we understood it. One bad decision by a judge should not be the end of it - there have been bad decisions on various issues and flat out bad judges. |
Westerly1965
Message Board Member
Username: Westerly1965
Post Number: 497
Registered: 09-2010
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2011 - 02:58 pm: |
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I think the solution to this is part and parcel to what Wildtim just said. If we are going to "enforce" any law on or rule on Christians then it must be enforced universally. If you can't wear a cross to school then you can't wear anything that represents Islam either that is both fair and practical. As to Sharia law it needs to be outlawed and as pointed out clearly it has not been addressed if we have a court citing it to excuse anyone from anything anywhere in this country period. On top of that any so called "Judge" that used it as a justification to excuse something that breaks one of our laws should immediately be relieved of his duties. Their is no room for negotiation on this at all! This is America if you want to be here you abide by OUR laws not yours I don't care what your religion is!
Part of the problem with this is that people sometimes have a problem wrapping their heads around what has changed in immigration in the last 100 years or so. My Great Grandparents came here from Germany. They were poor and worked crap jobs for a long time to make a better life for their families. But they did it legally and were glad to be contributing to society in this great land. Most of the people coming here now are not in this group. They do not care about our country and do not believe they should abide by our laws. We need to put a stop to it immediately before the minority is allowed to pick apart our nation a piece at a time. |
Heyjoe
Message Board Member
Username: Heyjoe
Post Number: 1207
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2011 - 03:25 pm: |
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Ricart wrote:"Heyjoe, Looks like I rattled your chain a bit. I would have thought that my original post "oh yeah, re the ACLU' would have been taken by most as a "tongue in cheek" opinion. After your lengthy reply, I couldn't resist taking it a step further. With my background, I think I have had enough classes and hands on experience to know what a terrorist is. I also know ostrich does not really stick it's head in a hole at the sight of danger, however, figuratively speaking, a lot of humans seem to."
Im sorry Ricart for a minute there i thought we were having an adult conversation here, well taking a seoncd look at the other posts it looks like all of the posts except yours were then. Sorry to have taken you seriously. If you get off on yanking my chain over terrorism then congratulations you succeeded. Its my personality flaw that allows that, i hear terrorism and visions of people i knew for decades being ground down to powdered cheese intrude.
If the aclu terrorizes you and coerces you into not doing something that is constitutionally protected than i think you scare rather easily.
feel free to keep yanking my chain if thats what gets you off. |
Redhawk4
Message Board Member
Username: Redhawk4
Post Number: 1906
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2011 - 05:03 pm: |
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Lohman, it is pointless me going to and fro with you on this matter, because you are part of the problem that concerns me with your way of thinking. Are you by any chance related to Neville Chamberlaine? perhaps all Muslims could sign a piece of paper to say they are good and have no bad intentions against us infidels
The real problem for people thinking your way is the Muslims have their eyes on Lah Lah land and the imposition of Sharia Law there too.
If you accept there is a problem then it cannot be solved with out focusing on Muslims since that is where the problems are. If there are lots of Muslims who do not agree with the extremist viewpoint, then it is their job to assist in rooting out the ones who are causing the problem. I have not seen evidence of this, my theory is that a Muslim has more loyalty to even the worst offending Muslim than he does to the infidel. If you cannot speak out or stand up for what is right, you share a collective guilt IMO and must be prepared for the consequences and inconveniences this may cause. |
Lohman446
Message Board Member
Username: Lohman446
Post Number: 354
Registered: 10-2010
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2011 - 06:45 pm: |
|
******************
I think the solution to this is part and parcel to what Wildtim just said. If we are going to "enforce" any law on or rule on Christians then it must be enforced universally. If you can't wear a cross to school then you can't wear anything that represents Islam either that is both fair and practical. As to Sharia law it needs to be outlawed and as pointed out clearly it has not been addressed if we have a court citing it to excuse anyone from anything anywhere in this country period. On top of that any so called "Judge" that used it as a justification to excuse something that breaks one of our laws should immediately be relieved of his duties. Their is no room for negotiation on this at all! This is America if you want to be here you abide by OUR laws not yours I don't care what your religion is!
Part of the problem with this is that people sometimes have a problem wrapping their heads around what has changed in immigration in the last 100 years or so. My Great Grandparents came here from Germany. They were poor and worked crap jobs for a long time to make a better life for their families. But they did it legally and were glad to be contributing to society in this great land. ***********
I think we must demand this from everyone immigrating, and to the part of making a better life (not being given) perhaps demand it a little more of our own people here.
Red I have no problem with our society having rules, laws, and punishments and enforcing them equally regardless of race, sex, or creed. However, I require that we do so equally. Profiling is not the same as enforcing law, I am ok with profiling along lines of logic. However, grouping all Muslims together and seeming to declare them accountable for the actions of a few is not. |
Red14
Message Board Member
Username: Red14
Post Number: 1554
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2011 - 07:47 pm: |
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"With all due respect Redhawk white supremacists had all sorts of reasons why integrating was dangerous."
Well, I knew some 'white supremacists', and what they were afraid of. They were afraid our morals would suffer, white women would openly mingle with blacks and we would have many interacial babies running around. They were afraid of a rise in illegitimate children, and the sanctity of marriage would suffer. They were afraid that there would be rioting in the streets and a rise in rapes, murders, and an overall breakdown in society. Basic Christian values would suffer and be openly ridiculed. Rampant liberalization and communism would overtake basic American ideals. They were afraid of dumbing down of schools and discipline in the classroom. They were afraid that the White race would shrink and be overtaken by the other races, and end up all looking alike.
I guess they were just being silly. And, I think I am done with this thread. |
Wildtim
Message Board Member
Username: Wildtim
Post Number: 202
Registered: 01-2011
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2011 - 08:28 pm: |
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Man they had the right idea wrong target. They should have been putting on their robes and burning crosses into democrats lawns. |
Dwalk
Message Board Member
Username: Dwalk
Post Number: 183
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Friday, February 18, 2011 - 07:58 am: |
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"Man they had the right idea wrong target. They should have been putting on their robes and burning crosses into democrats lawns"
LOL!
Excellent point, Wildtim, so true. |
Dwalk
Message Board Member
Username: Dwalk
Post Number: 184
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Friday, February 18, 2011 - 09:12 am: |
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It's been suggested that mental illness, not the intrinsic evil of Islam, made Boyd want to attack Americans. This is a subset of the fallacy that "Islam is a religion of peace", and that it is only a "tiny minority of extremists" who pervert this 'wonderful religion'. In that case, why were there FOUR (4) Muslims in the plot to blow up fuel tanks at Kennedy Airport?
The ringleader just got sentenced to life imprisonment -no doubt he'll use the time to proselytize (dahwa) Islamofascism amongst our criminal underworld, raising up armies for Allah against us. He is an immigrant from Guyana. Question: why shouldn't we stop all Muslim immigration BEFORE they do another massive terror attack? That would be logical. And the lives saved might include your own and those of your family.
Another question or two: why has the leftist mainstream media hushed up the Islamic misogyny and anti-Semitism so obvious in the Lara Logan sexual assault story?
Does anyone think they would have been so quiet if a tea-party mob had shouted, "Jew! Jew!" while sexually assaulting a lady journalist?
Islam gave us the Hindu Holocaust (80 million dead innocents) and the Armenian Genocide (1.5 million dead innocents), repeated jihads against Europe over centuries, the slave trade in Africa as well as capturing thousands of Europeans for slavery both sexual and hard-labor-till-you-die-variety, 'honor' killings, rapes, attacks on Jews and Christians, attempted assassinations of cartoonists, permission to beat one's wife, permission to have up to 4 wives at a time plus sex with all the slave girls you can kidnap, permission to 'marry' girls who are way underage, and 16,825 deadly attacks since 9/11 as of today (this number increases daily -no other religion does this).
Remind me again what's so good about Islam, the part of it that 'misunderstanders of Islam' get wrong? Thanks. |
Lohman446
Message Board Member
Username: Lohman446
Post Number: 355
Registered: 10-2010
| | Posted on Friday, February 18, 2011 - 11:44 am: |
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Only people in posession of a firearm commit a crime with a firearm....
I mean, its as logical as the arguments some of you have made aganist every person who accepts any portion of Islam. |
Red14
Message Board Member
Username: Red14
Post Number: 1555
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Friday, February 18, 2011 - 11:57 am: |
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We are having a discusion, he is oblivious.
Lohman is not listening. He is not responding to questions.
He has an agenda and is just spouting propaganda. |
Silvershooter
Message Board Member
Username: Silvershooter
Post Number: 334
Registered: 06-2010
| | Posted on Friday, February 18, 2011 - 12:01 pm: |
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In the interest of fairness and balance, I will suggest that many Muslims are God-fearing family oriented decent people. If their faith leads them to live peaceful,hard-working,unselfish lives then I wholeheartedly applaud their lifestyle.
There I said something positive about Islam and Muslims. I could say the same thing about Hindu's,Buddhists,Jehovahs witnesses. I've always tried to hear others points of view. I respect people that honestly try to live God-fearing lives. Especially monothiestic believers, even Native Americans who believe in a "Great Spirit". I have a very mixed ancestory including Cherokee blood.
All that said and setting aside the bold and openly stated desires(and actions)of many muslims to murder Jews and Christians; one main problem I have with Islam is the teaching that it's ok to decieve your "enemies". Unfortunately, this practice will continue in part because the media won't inform the masses about the true desire and plans of many Muslims.
As I said before, I don't hate any race or religion. I just feel sorry for those that hold to false teachings. I also feel sorry for self-professed freedom lovers who blind themselves to the real danger of Islam. Here's an interesting Beck video about the 12th Imam. No hate just information:
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/beck-who-is-the-12th-imam/
I agree with a lot of what you say Red14; and being a rural southern transplant I think I understand some of where you're coming from. I will just suggest, though, that Lohman is agreeing with some of what we say, and perhaps instead of an agenda he's just trying to make us have some self-examination of our beliefs and steer us from having too closed of a mind against Muslims. I get frustrated on this forum sometimes, but just remember we're stating our opinions and not everyone is going to agree. My religion was challenged by others frequently when I was growing up. I've learned to have thick skin and my Christian faith is not diminished. I give God the thanks for my experiences and His patience. I think a lot of these challenges we're seeing, and worse ones to come, will ultimately be
resolved by Him. Heard this on TV today: "Justice delayed is not justice denied". Not trying to be preachy, just sharing some thoughts.
I will add: thank God for placing me in a country where I can enjoy the means(firearms) of protecting my freedoms should that ever become necessary. Because I will never prostrate to mecca since that act is reserved for Christ alone. I would live off the land, go down firing my black widow, and lose my head before surrendering to forced religion. Bold statement, but I don't expect my feelings to ever change on that. |
Lohman446
Message Board Member
Username: Lohman446
Post Number: 356
Registered: 10-2010
| | Posted on Friday, February 18, 2011 - 12:34 pm: |
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Red, with all due respect it seems to me that I asked the question of what the right answer is? When immigration reform was proposed it seems that I was gladly willing to support it, even to the point of profiling in doing so. I did say early on that I was not going to take actions of an individual and judge entire populations for them, so forgive me if I will not consider "one Muslim in North Carolina" scenarios to judge the entire group on.
I hope (probably wrongly) that those in other countries would judge me based on who I am rather than simply calling me a "godless heathen" because of where I come from. Even if they look at me a second time, give me closer scrutiny I would hope they would judge me by my own actions and words rather than a misconception they may have.
You will Christianly forgive me, or not, if I do not engage you on the idea of integration being responsible for some of todays societal issues, I assumed you were not serious.
Forcing anyone into a religion is wrong, it hinders the search for truth (the sun orbits the world, the world is flat, etc) however one choses to look for it. However, telling someone they cannot practice any facet whatsoever of a religion is tantamount to the same thing. Our laws are made to protect everyone regardless of color or creed. This should be evenly done across all creeds.
Our laws are our laws, we should not be giving any religion a way out from them, that is true. However our laws must respect the right of religion within those laws.
I'll admit to my reply being snippy but I will ask someone to explain the logic that demands that non gun owners not judge all gun owners by the illegal acts of a handful and then argue that we should judge all Muslims by the actions of a few (or many for that matter).
If we accept that Muslims are taught deceit is acceptable how do we focus on Muslims? I see some poor border patrol agent checking boxes on immigration forms and thinking that 80% of the Middle East is not Mulsim.
Is this a Mosque? No, its a Church.
Are you Muslim? Nope, Jewish |
Silvershooter
Message Board Member
Username: Silvershooter
Post Number: 335
Registered: 06-2010
| | Posted on Friday, February 18, 2011 - 12:48 pm: |
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Am I wrong in believing that the main underlying topic is twofold:
1)THE TRUTH ABOUT ISLAM
and
2)OUR OPPOSITION TO FORCED RELIGION
Muslims can worship however they want. It's when some frequently murder innocents in the name of religion and try to secretly and openly force their religion on others that we have disagreement?
If the Muslims won't confront the wrongness of some of their radical beliefs then it probably will evolve into a world-wide war for US to resolve...how far are we from that more pronounced conflict? Will a global natural disaster like crop failures cause masses of people to surrender to forced Islam in order to do commerce and eat? More to come for sure.... |
Lohman446
Message Board Member
Username: Lohman446
Post Number: 357
Registered: 10-2010
| | Posted on Friday, February 18, 2011 - 12:55 pm: |
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I think one of our problems is our beleif that we are some sort of world wide peacekeeper. When Japan bombed Pearl Harbor we did not go into Japan to remove the emperor and promote democracy, we went to war to defeat Japan. Yes, innocent civilains were killed...
By treating war as a peacekeeping exercise we do not "force" populations to judge their government and protect themselves from all out war. We allow governments (and populations) to turn a blind eye to the evils they allow as long as they do not hurt them. I mean if I know the US is not going to come and carpet bomb do I really care if the camp down the road a ways is training militants for war against the US?
War is supposed to be hell. It keeps people from taking it too lightly. Our "we are not at war" philosophy cannot work. Not only are tens or hundreds of thousands of civilians still killed in the fighting it is far less effective at accomplishing our goals.
If we had bombed Iraq or Afghanistan into the ground we would be more likely to see a ground swell against funamentalist Islam from those who want to practice a more peaceful form... maybe. I could also make an argument that because it would have been much quicker it would have resulted in less overall civilian casualties. Theres a fault of logic in there somewhere that I acknowledge - we may have seen an uprising. However, what we have done surely has not prevented an uprising in funamentalist Islam or hatred towards the West. |
Wildtim
Message Board Member
Username: Wildtim
Post Number: 206
Registered: 01-2011
| | Posted on Friday, February 18, 2011 - 12:59 pm: |
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quote:I'll admit to my reply being snippy but I will ask someone to explain the logic that demands that non gun owners not judge all gun owners by the illegal acts of a handful and then argue that we should judge all Muslims by the actions of a few (or many for that matter).
Did you actually watch this video that Bud posted?
http://collive.com/show_news.rtx?id=8982
When a criminal shoots someone with a gun I don't defend that criminal, I don't claim his action was right and correct, I don't say its a shame he didn't kill more people, I denounce him as a criminal. I stand up and make sure everyone knows that I do not approve.
When A Muslim blows himself to hell taking as many people with him as he can, the rest of the Muslims cheer. When a horrific terrorist act takes place they don't denounce it, they defend it, support it, and applaud it. I am not judging Islam by the actions of a few but by the actions of the many in reaction to those few. On that basis we can know what the majority of Muslims believe and what they have been taught. |
Lohman446
Message Board Member
Username: Lohman446
Post Number: 358
Registered: 10-2010
| | Posted on Friday, February 18, 2011 - 01:04 pm: |
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So when one Muslim defends such action and you find one (or many) Muslims who defend his action you can judge every Muslim by those actions? |
Silvershooter
Message Board Member
Username: Silvershooter
Post Number: 336
Registered: 06-2010
| | Posted on Friday, February 18, 2011 - 01:21 pm: |
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That gets to the truth about Islam. While the majority may practice it peacefully, they generally won't publicly speak against the more extreme Muslims for fear of questioning the faith and subjecting themselves to murder for siding with infidels. Is Islam a faith of love toward God and respect for man or
fear toward God and hate for man? |
Lohman446
Message Board Member
Username: Lohman446
Post Number: 359
Registered: 10-2010
| | Posted on Friday, February 18, 2011 - 01:28 pm: |
|
It (as with other faiths) depends on who is interperting it / teaching it. Unfortunately right now those who are the "public face" are not teaching a peaceful thing. I am sure there are plenty who do but standing up and speaking out against those who teach something different than you (at least in the Middle East) can be deadly.
Unfortunately if I start with the conception that Islam is not peaceful and that anyone who practices it says (or acts) otherwise is being deceitful its pretty hard to convince me otherwise. |
Pmgunner7
Message Board Member
Username: Pmgunner7
Post Number: 3
Registered: 02-2011
| | Posted on Friday, February 18, 2011 - 05:45 pm: |
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Truth of the matter is this... You either truly believe (have faith) in your religion, or you don't. If you truly believe in and practice it, you will be an individual who does what it says. In Many Sura's of the Koran are phrases such as "Smite the heads of Christians and/or Jews (aka) infidel's". Please forgive me if it's not completely accurate as I'm paraphrasing, typing from memory, and it has been a while. If you want to call me out on this, I'll surely look it up again and share with you where its at in the Koran. The people who truly believe in and practice Islam are not extremists... they are just people who truly practice what the Koran says. I know many people who claim to be "Christian's"... who trust me, fail to meet the mark. These people are called hypocrites. So maybe it would be more accurate to call the people who are not labeled Islamic Extremists as hypocrites instead as they do not actually walk the walk of a true believer of Islam, which, make no mistake about it, is not at all peaceful. It's just PC to call the true believers extremists so as not to offend an entire people. You can thank the media and powers that be for not telling you the truth. You can thank yourself for not taking the initiative to find out the truth on your own and relying on the media and powers that be to innundate you with FOG. |
Wildtim
Message Board Member
Username: Wildtim
Post Number: 208
Registered: 01-2011
| | Posted on Saturday, February 19, 2011 - 07:00 am: |
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Lohman I'm done with this.
Islam has NEVER been taught any other way than it is now. Even "moderate" or Liberal" or "Reformed" Muslims support violent jihad as a valid religious expression. That makes it not peaceful and unable to be reconciled with peaceful non-muslim cultures. You say there are plenty of Peaceful Muslims who are afraid to speak out, I say there may be peaceful Muslims, but they are not really practicing Islam as it has been taught throughout its history. In more than half a millennium there has never been a Muslim state with benevolent intentions towards its neighbors, and there has never been a Muslim holy man who truthfully advocates tolerance towards other religions.
Pmgunner is correct in his interpretation of the mainstream Muslim point of view. You on the other hand have consistently failed to point to any factual information that would show otherwise. You claim that we are starting from an assumption and only looking for facts that support our assumption. I would contend that this is what you are doing. In order to claim the peacefulness of Islam you have to ignore much more of its teaching and practice than to claim it advocates violence. |
Dwalk
Message Board Member
Username: Dwalk
Post Number: 185
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Saturday, February 19, 2011 - 10:55 am: |
|
Question: if Islam is so wonderful and Christianity and America so bad, how come, after 1400 years, the Arab world is mired in poverty, illiteracy, and oppression?
Question: where did they figure out that the earth is round and circles the sun, in Islam or Christendom?
A more practical question: how do you tell a peaceful Muslim from a jihadist? This matters. An Afghan soldier, supposedly one of our Muslim allies, just opened fire on German troops killing 3 and wounding 6 others. Kind of like Major Nidal Hasan at Fort Hood -remember him? Shouting "Allahu Akbar!" as he butchered American soldiers? Since late 2009, there have been 3 incidents of Afghan Muslim soldiers/police turning on their non-Muslim 'comrades' (actually, they see us as 'infidels'). Since 9/11, there have been, as of today, 16,833 deadly Muslim attacks -notice this number grew since yesterday.
So much for the "just one individual" "isolated" cases and purported mere "mental" problems that political correctness would have us believe in lieu of the just plain evil of Islam.
Was our sixth President, John Quincy Adams (in office 1825-29), a "hater" too? Or did he have common sense that too many of us have abandoned since then? He said, "While the merciless and dissolute dogmas of the false prophet shall furnish motives to human action, there can never be peace on earth".
I think he would get us out of Muslim lands, cut off all US taxpayer funded foreign aid to Muslim lands, and ban all Muslim immigration, and strip citizenship from and deport many of the ones already here, in the interest of common-sense self-defense (not "hatred". Islam is the one that hates, and murderously acts upon that hatred). |
Miniman
Message Board Member
Username: Miniman
Post Number: 27
Registered: 06-2010
| | Posted on Saturday, February 19, 2011 - 12:43 pm: |
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ya dwalk i agree 100% screw the muslims and all the bleeding hearts who defend there actions. |
Heyjoe
Message Board Member
Username: Heyjoe
Post Number: 1208
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Saturday, February 19, 2011 - 02:01 pm: |
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i have to say 115 posts on a very very hot topic and a very civil conversation still going on. That is really impressive for an internet board. Lohman i give you credit for continuing your part of the discussion despite being a lone voice on that view and for the courage and character that shows. the other posters have also postulated their deep felt views in a frank manner. Again, Exceptional discussion for the topic on a forum such as this.
( I removed an insult to Ricart from this post which i apologize for. It was unfair to him and low of me. It was a stupid remark and i make no excuse. Again i apologize.) |
Dbcooper222
Message Board Member
Username: Dbcooper222
Post Number: 12
Registered: 12-2010
| | Posted on Saturday, February 19, 2011 - 03:02 pm: |
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Just don't bring up glocks |
Red14
Message Board Member
Username: Red14
Post Number: 1558
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Saturday, February 19, 2011 - 04:44 pm: |
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Winston Churchill, 1899.
“How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property - either as a child, a wife, or a concubine - must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men.
Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities. Thousands become the brave and loyal soldiers of the Queen: all know how to die. But the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytising faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science - the science against which it had vainly struggled - the civilisation of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilisation of ancient Rome." |
Redhawk4
Message Board Member
Username: Redhawk4
Post Number: 1918
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Saturday, February 19, 2011 - 04:48 pm: |
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Red, that's a very good insight from a different angle. Winston Churchill usually had a pretty good handle on common sense and again here he tells it like it is. |
Red14
Message Board Member
Username: Red14
Post Number: 1559
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Saturday, February 19, 2011 - 05:01 pm: |
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I personally believe Winston Churchill is the single most important man in providing victory in WWII.
Maybe the most important man in the 20th century. |
Redhawk4
Message Board Member
Username: Redhawk4
Post Number: 1919
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Saturday, February 19, 2011 - 06:40 pm: |
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"I personally believe Winston Churchill is the single most important man in providing victory in WWII"
We can agree on that Red, I watched a documentary about him a while back and was left with the feeling that it was destiny that had the right man in the right place at such a time. Many do not appreciate how important it was that Britain held firm in the early days of WWII when everyone else was overun or surrendered. He was not perfect, but had the perfect qualities for such a time in History. When the D day landings came about Churchill had to be specifically ordered by the King to not be part of the actual landings, thats how bad he wanted to stick it to the Germans. When he said we'd fight them in the streets etc. and never surrender he meant it collectively and personally, what he said was what he planned to do to the letter.
I can't see many if any current leaders having that sort of resolve, they'd all be too busy trying to work some sweetheart deal for themselves, while others did the fighting and dieing.
Have you ever seen the movie "The Young Churchill"? starring Simon Ward, when you see how he escaped etc. from the Boers you realise he was a brave and very resourceful man. |
Dwalk
Message Board Member
Username: Dwalk
Post Number: 186
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Sunday, February 20, 2011 - 08:20 am: |
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Winston Churchill: "If you're not willing to fight for the right when you can easily win without bloodshed" (such as if we had not passed Ted Kennedy's 1965 Immigration Act); "if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly" (such as stopping Muslim immigration NOW); "you will have to fight with all of the odds against you and only a small chance of survival. There may even be a worse case: you may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves". And Islam is very big on slavery.
Another Englishman with uncommon common sense was Enoch Powell (1912-1998). In 1968, he correctly predicted the consequences of unchecked third world immigration in his "rivers of blood" speech. Lefty elitists screamed 'racist', but 74% of the people agreed with him. Unfortunately, the elitists had their way, and today the west is in the mess it is. Obama is still keeping our borders open, supports the Ground Zero mosque, and nominates advocates of sharia law in the US. In Paris, Muslims block off the streets for mass prayers in broad daylight. Because of westerners' failure to defend themselves due to 'political correctness', rivers of blood are quite likely to flow here. Our grandchildren will wonder what on earth was wrong with our generation. |
Redhawk4
Message Board Member
Username: Redhawk4
Post Number: 1921
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Sunday, February 20, 2011 - 12:36 pm: |
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I remember the upset over Enoch Powells remarks and he was pretty much hounded out of politics for saying it. As you say the elitists and lefties got their way in everything and now it's a bloody mess.
This is why personally Obama and his buddies scare me so much, I've lived through it once and don't want to see the US go down the same road. There are plenty who just can't see that, but if you look at the steady demise of the UK you will see the paralells to here, only difference is about 40-50 years on the time line. |
Wildtim
Message Board Member
Username: Wildtim
Post Number: 220
Registered: 01-2011
| | Posted on Sunday, February 20, 2011 - 12:49 pm: |
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I have the hope that there are enough of us in the US that would take an "over my dead body" stance to keep us from going down that road.
Commifornia doesn't make me feel very secure in that hope though. |
Ricart
Message Board Member
Username: Ricart
Post Number: 234
Registered: 06-2010
| | Posted on Sunday, February 20, 2011 - 06:22 pm: |
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Felt this thread had gone far enough and intended to stay off of it. However, I just received an e-mail for a site on You Tube. I don't know how to bring up the address to place on this site, but bring up on your browser, "You Tube Minnesota under attack from Sharia law". Just as General Billy Mitchell warned us the Japanese would one day attack us via Pearl Harbor by aircraft, once again there are those in this country that bury their heads in the sand. |
Wildtim
Message Board Member
Username: Wildtim
Post Number: 223
Registered: 01-2011
| | Posted on Sunday, February 20, 2011 - 07:52 pm: |
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You Tube Minnesota under attack from Sharia law
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0vItJqpQ8U |
Dwalk
Message Board Member
Username: Dwalk
Post Number: 188
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Monday, February 21, 2011 - 08:33 am: |
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Today's news: in Milan, Italy, a Tunisian Muslim stole a 4x4, rammed an airport door, and attacked a policeman with a knife.
But don't worry, authorities say it's not 'terrorism'. The man "seems to have been simply overcome by a fit of rage".
Of course.
How often have you gotten ticked off when the coffee pot at the office is empty AGAIN, and gone out and stolen a car, rammed it into an airport door, and then tried to stab a police officer?
It's perfectly understandable. Nothing to do with terrorism.
And jihad? Pah! What relationship could this incident possibly have with a noble interior spiritual struggle?
(sarcasm borrowed from jihadwatch) |
Bud
Message Board Member
Username: Bud
Post Number: 897
Registered: 10-2009
| | Posted on Monday, February 21, 2011 - 08:42 am: |
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What could be worse would be a Muslim in a UNION losing benefits. |
Lohman446
Message Board Member
Username: Lohman446
Post Number: 360
Registered: 10-2010
| | Posted on Monday, February 21, 2011 - 09:00 am: |
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Dwalk, with all due respect it would be like blaming all gun owners for Loughner and his actions. As long as there are millions (though I would argue this point down to a handful) of Muslims not involved in violent uprising or conversion it is unfair to condemn them all for the actions of some (or many for that matter). |
Uncle_lee
Message Board Member
Username: Uncle_lee
Post Number: 617
Registered: 09-2009
| | Posted on Monday, February 21, 2011 - 09:29 am: |
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I don’t know if I can put my thought into words that will be understood, but here is a try at it.
To say that the only Muslims that are our enemies are the ones running around killing people is like saying that the only Americans that are at war with terrorism are the ones in uniform.
Most of the Americans that I know stand behind our troops.
I think it is the same with the Muslims.
You have fighters and you have those that support them.
There are two sides in this war.
For or against the Muslims.
If you stand in the middle, then you stand for them for you don't stand against them.
That is MY feelings.
So far I think I still have that freedom. |
Wildtim
Message Board Member
Username: Wildtim
Post Number: 224
Registered: 01-2011
| | Posted on Monday, February 21, 2011 - 09:31 am: |
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quote:Dwalk, with all due respect it would be like blaming all gun owners for Loughner and his actions. As long as there are millions (though I would argue this point down to a handful) of Muslims not involved in violent uprising or conversion it is unfair to condemn them all for the actions of some (or many for that matter).
Stop comparing apples and oranges. Gun owners denounce the actions of criminals while the majority of muslims Do not condem the Jihadists and many celebrate their criminal actions.
That is the difference pure and simple just because you are unwilling to see it does not make it any less true.
Had I been president after 9/11 I would have been willing to pop a small nuke in every place I saw people dancing in the streets celebrating the event, and that includes Dearborn Michigan. Our enemy's identified themselves quite well on that day we should have taken notice. |
Redhawk4
Message Board Member
Username: Redhawk4
Post Number: 1922
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Monday, February 21, 2011 - 09:55 am: |
|
"To say that the only Muslims that are our enemies are the ones running around killing people is like saying that the only Americans that are at war with terrorism are the ones in uniform".
Uncle Lee, you may have been worried whether your thoughts would come out right, but your analogy was spot on for me - well said. |
Lohman446
Message Board Member
Username: Lohman446
Post Number: 361
Registered: 10-2010
| | Posted on Monday, February 21, 2011 - 09:57 am: |
|
"I don’t know if I can put my thought into words that will be understood, but here is a try at it.
To say that the only Muslims that are our enemies are the ones running around killing people is like saying that the only Americans that are at war with terrorism are the ones in uniform.
Most of the Americans that I know stand behind our troops.
I think it is the same with the Muslims.
You have fighters and you have those that support them.
There are two sides in this war.
For or against the Muslims.
If you stand in the middle, then you stand for them for you don't stand against them.
That is MY feelings.
So far I think I still have that freedom."
Wait, its the Muslims that are hateful and intolerant of those not agreeing with them? |
Red14
Message Board Member
Username: Red14
Post Number: 1560
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Monday, February 21, 2011 - 10:03 am: |
|
"Wait, its the Muslims that are hateful and intolerant of those not agreeing with them?"
YES. And, they say it all the time, do you not hear them? |
Redhawk4
Message Board Member
Username: Redhawk4
Post Number: 1924
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Monday, February 21, 2011 - 10:05 am: |
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"Wait, its the Muslims that are hateful and intolerant of those not agreeing with them?"
Correct Lohman, finally you get it. |
Silvershooter
Message Board Member
Username: Silvershooter
Post Number: 337
Registered: 06-2010
| | Posted on Monday, February 21, 2011 - 11:27 am: |
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http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/02/20/muslim-cleric-plans-protest-outside-white-house-attempt-spread-sharia-law/ |
Bud
Message Board Member
Username: Bud
Post Number: 898
Registered: 10-2009
| | Posted on Monday, February 21, 2011 - 11:30 am: |
|
www.wretch.cc/video/f0806449k&func=single&vid=5836976 |
Red14
Message Board Member
Username: Red14
Post Number: 1562
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Monday, February 21, 2011 - 04:03 pm: |
|
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1359160/Gang-slashed-teachers-face-taught-religions-Muslim-girls.html |
Uncle_lee
Message Board Member
Username: Uncle_lee
Post Number: 618
Registered: 09-2009
| | Posted on Monday, February 21, 2011 - 04:07 pm: |
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"Wait, its the Muslims that are hateful and intolerant of those not agreeing with them?"
It is not that they DISAGREE with me.
It is that they want to KILL me. |
Pmgunner7
Message Board Member
Username: Pmgunner7
Post Number: 8
Registered: 02-2011
| | Posted on Monday, February 21, 2011 - 04:07 pm: |
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I haven't read all of these posts but have read enough to surmise that some of you get it (I think)and many of you don't. Whether you choose to believe what I am typing here is your freedom to believe...or not. There is a much bigger picture that many are missing do to ignorance, lack of wisdom, or due to the "it couldn't possibly be" factor. The reason the people's who believe in Islam (Muslim's), hate Jew's, Christian's and countries such as the USA, and the UK... due to many Christian's living in these countries that support Israel. The tragic fact here is whether you believe in Chrisianity or not, support Israel or not, you ARE Living in America and ARE impacted by these facts. The people who blew up the WTC killed anybody... regardless of race, gender, creed, sexual orientation and the whole laundry list of PC B.S. They DID NOT discriminate, oh wait ahkman, pull up...there is an Arab in one of those buildings. The reason they hate anyone who supports Israel is found in, hold onto your hat or sit down>>>I'll wait for you to>>> The Bible. God gave, by force, the land that the Israel people are now living in. You must look in the Old Testament of the Bible to understand that God promised land to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Gen 15: 18.On that day the LORD made a covenant with Abram and said, “To your descendants I give this land, from the Wadi[e] of Egypt to the great river, the Euphrates— 19 the land of the Kenites, Kenizzites, Kadmonites, 20 Hittites, Perizzites, Rephaites, 21 Amorites, Canaanites, Girgashites and Jebusites.”
He forced out the people who inhabited the land (yes there was bloodshed) and gave it to the Hebrew's that were lead out of Egypt and settled in modern day Israel, which by the way, wasn't RECOGNIZED as a sovereign state until 5/14/1948, which was also prophesied in Isaiah 66:8 that in one day this would happen. 66:8 No one has ever heard of that happening; no one has ever seen that happen. In the same way no one ever saw a country begin in one day; no one has ever heard of a new nation beginning in one moment.
IT WAS A PROMISE TO HIS CHOSEN PEOPLE AND HE IS GOING TO KEEP IT AT ALL COSTS. It's time people start grasping this. The Arab people, one especially (Mohammad), got pissed, and are trying to do something about it to the people living there and all supporters of those living there... USA, UK. Remember the 'Crusades' 1095-1291? What was that? Once again, the taking back of the land that was promised to God's chosen people.
What I'd like to make perfectly clear hear if I didn't do already is this, whether you believe what I'm typing, are or are not a Christian, if you are living in the western world, you ARE affected. Why, because they (Muslim's or the people who believe in Islam) believe it.
Go ahead, swing away at me, just remember that you read it when you start to question yourselves...maybe he could be right. |
Uncle_lee
Message Board Member
Username: Uncle_lee
Post Number: 619
Registered: 09-2009
| | Posted on Monday, February 21, 2011 - 04:13 pm: |
|
Pmgunner7,
I don't disagree with you at all.
The Father gave them the land so it belongs to them. EVERYTHING belongs to HIM so HE can give to whomever he wants to have it. |
Heyjoe
Message Board Member
Username: Heyjoe
Post Number: 1218
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Monday, February 21, 2011 - 04:27 pm: |
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sorry to disappoint you pm but i do believe that radical islamists believe it. the crusades are brought up all the time by radical islamists and we are referred to as the crusaders. |
Gonzoman1
Message Board Member
Username: Gonzoman1
Post Number: 130
Registered: 08-2009
| | Posted on Monday, February 21, 2011 - 05:28 pm: |
|
I don't know why everyone continues to give Lohman a captive audience...He obvoiusly has strong devotion/sympathy towards at least some aspect of the Muslim faith, so why try? I choose not to waste my time with those who clearly have too much. Now, I'm goin back to watching "Team America" so that I may develope a plan to save our great nation. Dirka Dirka Dirka. |
Lohman446
Message Board Member
Username: Lohman446
Post Number: 363
Registered: 10-2010
| | Posted on Monday, February 21, 2011 - 05:54 pm: |
|
"It is not that they DISAGREE with me.
It is that they want to KILL me."
Uncle Lee I don't mean to pick on you when I quote you. But every last one?
Gonzoman.... actually I accept that Islam is a major motivating factor (and perhaps to some of these people the only motivation?) in some of the most violent and hateful acts committed in the modern world. I would argue these acts rise above air style strikes at military targets that have killed countless civilians because the attacks often intentionally target civilians.
I just have an issue with judging (and / or hating) every last person based simply on a faith they share maybe or maybe not fanatically. For the most part many of the issues that are expressed are not with funamentalist Muslims but with all Muslims. "Why don't the moderates scream it from the rooftops and decry it". Go decry anything the ruling minority (it is the minority in who rules) does in those countries and let me know how it works for you. Freedom to decry what you think is wrong is not protected in most of the middle east. |
Uncle_lee
Message Board Member
Username: Uncle_lee
Post Number: 620
Registered: 09-2009
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - 06:30 am: |
|
"Uncle Lee I don't mean to pick on you when I quote you. But every last one?"
There may be some Muslims that don't go along with killing all that do not believe as they do.
Just as there are some Americans that don't go along with the war on terrorism.
I think in both cases that the number is very small.
I have no children so therefore I will have no grandchildren or great-grandchildren to worry about, but I worry about yours.
If this is not stopped now while it can be stopped, the great-grandchildren of this generation WILL grow up under Sharia Law.
Think of your great-grandson being killed for having a few beers after graduation.
Think of your great-granddaughter being whipped in the street because someone saw her ankles.
We can’t hold hands and sing cum-ba-la (how ever it is spelled) and expect them to go away.
We can be politically correct and kiss up to them while they slowly take over our country but the future generations will hate us for it.
Political correctness is killing our country.
You either side against them or you are siding with them in the destruction of the freedoms of this Nation. |
Pmgunner7
Message Board Member
Username: Pmgunner7
Post Number: 9
Registered: 02-2011
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - 09:06 am: |
|
Uncle Lee,
If you don't disagree with me at all, then maybe you'll agree with my feelings on this point. I believe that Before sharia or any other laws such as these will come into play one of two things will happen. 1)Americans (the one's paying ample attention) will grow very tired any wary of the very fabric of what our great nation was founded upon being trampled and take things into their own hands, (and no, I'm not advocating for it, I can just see it as a possibility. It's not like it didn't happen before). Push them or anyone far enough into the corner where there is no more room left to breath and the only way to escape is to turn around and go through those that have put you there. Or, 2) If I am discerning you correctly, and you are student of scripture, you would have to concede that the rapture might take place beforehand. Personally, I'm hoping for the latter. |
Lohman446
Message Board Member
Username: Lohman446
Post Number: 368
Registered: 10-2010
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - 09:19 am: |
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I see a lot of talk of scripture and a lot of talk about we have to do something. I am curious as to what that something is exactly?
"Anyone who claims to be in the light but hates his brother is still in the darkness. Whoever loves his brother lives in the light, and there is nothing in him to make him stumble" (1 John 2:9-10).
I think of the story of the Samaratin, and the place of Samaratins in the day. Christ did not pick such for his parable because they were considered upstanding and good. |
Dbcooper222
Message Board Member
Username: Dbcooper222
Post Number: 14
Registered: 12-2010
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - 09:28 am: |
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This is a fight that goes back to Ishmal and Isaac with atrocities commited by both sides and with no simple solutions. You don't have to go all the way to the crusades to find examples of evil deeds done in the name of God. It's not only the Muslims who convert by force, my great grandmother is a fine example.
As a child she was taken from her home and family. Her hair was cut, her clothes were taken. If she spoke her language she was beaten.
If she didn't answer to her new name, her Christian name, she was beaten.If she sang traditional songs she was beaten. And when she ran away and was caught she was beaten nearly to death with a broken leg that never healed properly but she lived, others were not so lucky. All of this happened here, at the hands of missionaries with the support of our own government.
As for Sharia law I say good luck with that, Hitler wanted to make us all Nazis, Stalin was going to make us all Communists, neither worked out too well. If there are courts applying Sharia law here that's not a Islam issue, it's an incompatent judge who needs to be tossed out on his ass issue. |
Dwalk
Message Board Member
Username: Dwalk
Post Number: 189
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - 10:02 am: |
|
Lohman, I don't "blame all Muslims", I blame Islam. Don't you? Do you agree with Islam? Islam says that all non-Muslims are fit targets for lethal violence. Are you okay with murdering people just because they don't believe the same as you? And this is not an 'extremist' view in Islam; it is baseline, normative, mainstream, grassroots Islam, the same Islam that all Muslims (and their dhimmis) support by being Muslims (or dhimmis), whether they schizophrenically don't fully realize that, or whether they deceptively pretend they don't. And commands to 'slay the infidel' aren't just empty words in a forgotten book on a dusty shelf somewhere. Today's total of DEADLY (meaning at least one fatality) Muslim attacks just since 9/11 has risen to 16,846. Many Muslims are murdering lots of people every day. Why are you lending any assistance to this?
One of those attacks involved Gary Smith, a teacher of world religions at a Girls' School in London. Four (not 'just one isolated individual' with 'mental' problems) Muslim thugs, acting in accordance with Islamic teachings which says nobody can teach Muslims any other faith, slashed his face with a Stanley knife and fractured his skull with an iron rod and block of cement.
Why do you run interference for those who crack skulls for Allah?
I don't mean to just pick on Lohman. Political correctness amounts to treason, if you think about it. The American Bar Association's Executive Counsel has just launched a Task Force to review the anti-sharia legislation of 14 wise states (Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Georgia, Indiana, Louisiana, Mississippi, Nebraska, S. Carolina, S. Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, and Wyoming). Oklahoma had passed an anti-sharia law with 70% of the people voting for it, but a Clinton-appointed federal judge overturned it. Leftist traitors are helping enforce Islamic sharia law which says nobody can insult or slander Islam. Quistlings are helping take down traditional western freedom. |
Lohman446
Message Board Member
Username: Lohman446
Post Number: 370
Registered: 10-2010
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - 10:31 am: |
|
I do not protect or run interference for those who have committed violent acts. Let the law of the land deal with them as it should. I do run interference, if you will, for those who have committed no such act and yet would be judged guilty by others of it. |
Coinchop
Message Board Member
Username: Coinchop
Post Number: 1190
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - 11:55 am: |
|
If it swims like a duck, walks like a duck, looks
like a duck, quacks like a duck??????????????
AND<><><><>
Most people are judged by the company they keep. |
Wildtim
Message Board Member
Username: Wildtim
Post Number: 229
Registered: 01-2011
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - 12:44 pm: |
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quote:I do not protect or run interference for those who have committed violent acts. Let the law of the land deal with them as it should. I do run interference, if you will, for those who have committed no such act and yet would be judged guilty by others of it.
How do you feel about people who financially support terrorism worldwide? |
Lohman446
Message Board Member
Username: Lohman446
Post Number: 373
Registered: 10-2010
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - 12:56 pm: |
|
Grey area... I mean not too long ago we were the ones supporting the taliban, not only financially but directly with weapons.
That being said we in the US have declared war on certain terrorist organizations. Giving financial support to our declared enemies (remember in ths conversation the government has not declared Muslims our enemy) should be dealt with within our laws, and I beleive is.
Now... if we spin this to what about people in Saudi Arabia giving aid it becomes a different question. The citizens of our country and those living within its borders who are not citizens should be subject to our laws (and I think are). If the Saudi government does not have laws against it I do not know that we can hold individual Saudis (not within our boundaries) accountable to our laws. I surely hope the Saudi government cannot hold me accountable to its laws. Of course, this gets interesting as you wonder where the line of being part of an organization and giving aid is. |
Bud
Message Board Member
Username: Bud
Post Number: 900
Registered: 10-2009
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - 01:13 pm: |
|
Islamic terrorism
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Islamic terrorism is a term for acts of terrorism committed by Muslims for the purpose of achieving varying political and/or religious ends. Islamic terrorism, according to critics and human rights groups, has been linked from the beginning of Islam with the practice of divinely sanctioned warfare and lethal injunctions against apostates.[1] [2]
Islamic terrorism has been identified as taking place in the Middle East, Africa, Europe, Southeast Asia, and the United States since the 1970's.[citation needed] One of the best-known organizations is Al-Qaeda, which was founded by Osama Bin Laden for the stated goals of ending American military presence in the Middle East and the Arabian Peninsula,[3][4] overthrowing Arab regimes he considers corrupt and insufficiently religious,[3][4] and ending American support for Israel.[5]
Some academics argue that Islamic terrorism is explained by the blowback theory, which holds that the presence and influence of empires in Muslim nations has resulted in violence that is resistive and retributive.[6] Others argue that Islamic terrorism is based on a religious understanding of jihad as a struggle against non-Muslims, and tied to Islamism. Sociology has also offered various theories of social identity and social categorization to explain why persons turn to acts of terrorism.
Islamic terrorist organizations are known for using several particular tactics, including suicide attacks, hijackings, kidnapping, execution, and recruiting new members through the internet. |
Heyjoe
Message Board Member
Username: Heyjoe
Post Number: 1225
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - 10:53 pm: |
|
And then there are the politicians and people who profit off of it.
Today, Bloomberg‘s Professional division announced the launch of a Bloomberg Islamic Finance Platform (ISLM), which will provide tools and services for investors who want to be compliant with Shariah law.
http://blogs.barrons.com/stockstowatchtoday/2011/02/22/bloomberg-introduces-shariah-compliant-investment-products/?mod=BOLBlog |
Westerly1965
Message Board Member
Username: Westerly1965
Post Number: 521
Registered: 09-2010
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2011 - 10:41 am: |
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Oh man I gotta tell you that link Heyjoe just posted really makes me sick.... |
Redhawk4
Message Board Member
Username: Redhawk4
Post Number: 1936
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2011 - 05:08 pm: |
|
Me too. |
Dbcooper222
Message Board Member
Username: Dbcooper222
Post Number: 15
Registered: 12-2010
| | Posted on Thursday, February 24, 2011 - 07:56 am: |
|
Anything starting with bloomberg makes me sick, the world will be a better place when he leaves it |
Dwalk
Message Board Member
Username: Dwalk
Post Number: 190
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Thursday, February 24, 2011 - 10:06 am: |
|
Bloomberg is a dhimmi. Apparently, so is the Tulsa Deputy Chief, Daryl Webster, who ordered Captain Paul Fields to attend a mosque, and when Captain Fields refused, he had him transferred to another Division. Now Fields is suing on grounds his First Amendment rights were violated. I pray he wins.
Dhimmis tell us Islam is tolerant. If that's true, why did Muslims just burn down a Christian school in Kashmir? They had heard a rumor that a Muslim had converted to Christianity, and Islam is violently opposed to religious freedom.
Dhimmis ignore Islamic misogyny, while hypocritically promoting leftist women's lib against western societies, which allow far more women's rights. For three generations, under atheistic communism (another great evil, make no mistake), Chechen women had burnt their headscarves. But now, under the Islamic revival, women are threatened if they don't cover up. Two Muslim security guards outside a school in Grozny, Chechnya, gripped their AKs as they ordered Zalina, 19, to cover her head before going into class. She doesn't like wearing her headscarf, "But if I don't, I know I will be punished. I am scared of that."
Dhimmis try to reassure us that "Islam is a religion of peace". If so, why did Zachary Chesser, a Virginia convert to Islam, try to join jihad terrorists? And if Islam and freedom are compatible, why do they try to kill cartoonists? Zach had threatened 'South Park' cartoonists.
Meanwhile, Iranian (Muslim) warships in the Mediterranean are deemed to be a "message of peace for all Muslim nations". Wonderful, but what about the rest of us? Here's a clue about that: today, the total of deadly Muslim attacks has climbed to 16,855. That figure is still rising every day. |
Redhawk4
Message Board Member
Username: Redhawk4
Post Number: 1978
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2011 - 10:54 am: |
|
A little more evidence, that they just might not be our best buds.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41884024/ns/world_news-europe |
Tranquilo
Message Board Member
Username: Tranquilo
Post Number: 497
Registered: 06-2009
| | Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2011 - 09:56 pm: |
|
The guy that killed these two U.S. servicemen and wounded two others was yelling "allah akbar" as he opened fire, according to several witnesses. When hussein obamba was asked by a reporter today if this represented a terrorist attack, he danced all around the question and refused to say that it was. |
Mndoug
Message Board Member
Username: Mndoug
Post Number: 413
Registered: 12-2010
| | Posted on Friday, March 04, 2011 - 03:33 am: |
|
Yesterday I heard - for the very first time, ever - a national news report that said "Two servicemen were killed today by a muslim in a terror attack..." I almost drove off the road.
Probably just a mistake. The network was probably immediately excoriated by the PC police and is now on double-secret probation! |
Lohman446
Message Board Member
Username: Lohman446
Post Number: 404
Registered: 10-2010
| | Posted on Friday, March 04, 2011 - 04:50 am: |
|
Allow me to set what motivates our enemies aside for a moment to ask a question.
If we are fighting a "war on terror" is it not morally imperative that our enemies, especially those that attack our soldiers, be considered terrorrists? |
Mndoug
Message Board Member
Username: Mndoug
Post Number: 416
Registered: 12-2010
| | Posted on Friday, March 04, 2011 - 05:08 am: |
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Yup. Unlawful combatants, even... (as quaint as that outdated Geneva Convention notion is.) |
Wildtim
Message Board Member
Username: Wildtim
Post Number: 268
Registered: 01-2011
| | Posted on Friday, March 04, 2011 - 10:12 am: |
|
 |
Westerly1965
Message Board Member
Username: Westerly1965
Post Number: 606
Registered: 09-2010
| | Posted on Friday, March 04, 2011 - 03:27 pm: |
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LOL Wildtim... |
Heyjoe
Message Board Member
Username: Heyjoe
Post Number: 1278
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Friday, March 04, 2011 - 04:38 pm: |
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haha! |
Naa_collector
Message Board Member
Username: Naa_collector
Post Number: 3172
Registered: 06-2009
| | Posted on Friday, March 04, 2011 - 05:36 pm: |
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That's hilarious, Tim! |
Heyjoe
Message Board Member
Username: Heyjoe
Post Number: 1282
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Friday, March 04, 2011 - 08:39 pm: |
|
USAF Airman murdered in Germany
By DAVID McHUGH, Associated Press David Mchugh, Associated Press – Fri Mar 4, 1:27 pm ET
KARLSRUHE, Germany – U.S. Senior Airman Nicholas J. Alden was standing outside of a bus at Frankfurt airport when a young man first asked him for a cigarette, then whether he was bound for Afghanistan.
When Alden answered yes, the 21-year-old Kosovo Albanian fatally shot him, point blank, in the back of the head, then stormed aboard the bus shouting "Allah Akbar" — Arabic for "God is great." He shot and killed Airman 1st Class Zachary R. Cuddeback, who was at the wheel, then shot and injured two others, German authorities said Friday.
Gunman Arid Uka then pointed his FN 9mm pistol at yet another airman seated on the bus. "He pointed his pistol at his head and pulled the trigger twice, but the pistol jammed and no shots came out," prosecutor Rainer Griesbaum told reporters in Karlsruhe.
Jammed, empty shell casing prevented the weapon from firing. Those casings saved at least six other lives — the number of cartridges left in the magazine.
Uka, who was raised and schooled in Germany, refused to speak Thursday when brought before a judge and formally charged with two counts of murder and three counts of attempted murder.
But shortly after the attack, he told police that he had taken the weapon and two knives to the airport specifically to kill Americans "as revenge for the American mission in Afghanistan," Griesbaum said.
Uka said a YouTube video he saw the day before the incident allegedly showing a brutal raid on a home by U.S. soldiers in Afghanistan had inspired him to prevent what he considered "further atrocities."
When he saw the busload of 16 airmen parked outside Terminal 2 awaiting transport to the nearby Ramstein Air Base, he approached Alden, 25, from South Carolina, who was assigned to the 48th Security Forces Squadron at RAF Lakenheath in England.
Cuddeback, 21, hailed from Virginia and was assigned to the 86th Vehicle Readiness Squadron at Ramstein Air Base in Germany. He was the only airman in uniform. The others were dressed in civilian cloths.
After his weapon jammed, Uka fled. The 22-year-old airman he last tried to shoot chased him into the airport terminal, where he and police overpowered the attacker.
German authorities believe that Uka only recently radicalized and that he acted alone — but Griesbaum said the incident shows there is a serious danger from what he called "virtual jihad," or those attracted to extremism through the Internet, not part of a radical network. "It underscores the danger of Islamists acting alone," he said.
Police said Uka was shy, had few friends and appeared to get his ideas not from mosque attendance or personal contact but from the Internet. He had not been observed at any of the mosques that police keep under surveillance, they said.
Police said they have not been able to identify the video he said had inspired him to violence, or whether such a video exists.
Griesbaum said the case underscored the threat from Internet extremism but added that the investigations could be slow and painstaking: "Gathering the evidence is extremely difficult."
The two U.S. airmen who were wounded have not been identified, and one of them remained hospitalized in critical condition on Friday. |
Petergunn
Message Board Member
Username: Petergunn
Post Number: 198
Registered: 01-2010
| | Posted on Friday, March 04, 2011 - 10:04 pm: |
|
anybody that believes that muslims(mostly the radical ones) are not our enemy is experiencing normalcy bias. That can be a dangerous mistake. |
Uncle_lee
Message Board Member
Username: Uncle_lee
Post Number: 633
Registered: 09-2009
| | Posted on Saturday, March 05, 2011 - 06:54 am: |
|
Well Petergunn,
It looks like our Country is making dangerous mistakes on all fronts at the present time.
Our leaders either have their heads in the sand or make decisions based on unknown motives. Unknown to we the people.
If they (our leaders) keep this up, we (The USA) are going to fall.
Political correctness and multiculturalism is going to doom our country.
If a person is coming to America then they should become an American. Don’t bring the other country with them. They left it for some reason. This Country is better than that one or they wouldn’t have left it. Don’t change this one into that one.
I could scream & holler & ramble on that for hours and just say the same thing over & over.
If the house is burning and you scream “The house is on fire!!!!” but most of the people just set there, what do you do? How do you get them to move to put out the fire? Are they just too stupid to smell the smoke? |
Tommyguns
Message Board Member
Username: Tommyguns
Post Number: 131
Registered: 06-2009
| | Posted on Saturday, March 05, 2011 - 05:35 pm: |
|
"Are they just too stupid to smell the smoke?"
Yes. |
Redhawk4
Message Board Member
Username: Redhawk4
Post Number: 1986
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Sunday, March 06, 2011 - 11:44 am: |
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They seem too stupid, period. |
Dwalk
Message Board Member
Username: Dwalk
Post Number: 195
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Sunday, March 06, 2011 - 01:58 pm: |
|
Islam resembles a giant mafia in some ways. If you try to leave either one, they will kill you.
And if the Don thinks you're getting out of line, they make you an offer you can't refuse. For exp, Dr. Usama Hasan, a physics lecturer at Middlesex University, has been forced to retract his claims that Islam is compatible with Darwin's theory of evolution. It turns out he received death threats from fellow Muslims from the local mosque. So, he changed his tune. Now he's like, "I seek Allah's forgiveness for my mistakes...".
We have morally confused western women willing to join this misogynistic 'religion' which strips them of their rights just because they are women. Jihad Jane of Pennsylvania, and Jihad Jamie of Colorado, both converted, and volunteered to kill a Swedish artist who drew a picture of the Prophet (and pedophile, not to mention mass murderer) Mohammed.
We need moral clarity and courage to stop this looming threat. |
Redhawk4
Message Board Member
Username: Redhawk4
Post Number: 1990
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Sunday, March 06, 2011 - 05:02 pm: |
|
True Freedom of speech where views that are not tied into PC or left wing agendas would be a start. No one in a public position dare speak out against illegal immigration or the Muslim issue without being slammed as a racist and being hounded to the ends of the earth.
Until their is true freedom to voice such concerns, the spiral will be ever downward. |
Red14
Message Board Member
Username: Red14
Post Number: 1578
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Sunday, March 06, 2011 - 08:54 pm: |
|
''True Freedom of speech where views that are not tied into PC or left wing agendas would be a start. No one in a public position dare speak out against illegal immigration or the Muslim issue without being slammed as a racist and being hounded to the ends of the earth.
Until their is true freedom to voice such concerns, the spiral will be ever downward''
Great post!!!!!!!!!!!
I personally believe PC is our greatest problem right now. For if the 1st Amendment falls, the 2nd will follow. Political Correctness is ANTI-Freedom of Speech and is EVIL . |
Lohman446
Message Board Member
Username: Lohman446
Post Number: 412
Registered: 10-2010
| | Posted on Monday, March 07, 2011 - 04:55 am: |
|
Pretty hard to logically condemn the practice of one religion and all who practice it in any form in one post and then demand freedom of speech in another is it not? |
Uncle_lee
Message Board Member
Username: Uncle_lee
Post Number: 638
Registered: 09-2009
| | Posted on Monday, March 07, 2011 - 05:36 am: |
|
This is not about limiting that bunch freedom of speech. It is about killing people who disagree with them or poke fun at them, treat their women as if they some form of low life, forcing their form of government on the rest of the world, etc.
It is not their speech I think needs limited it is their actions.
To me, if this was 1946, you would be standing up for the Germans and the Japs. |
Lohman446
Message Board Member
Username: Lohman446
Post Number: 413
Registered: 10-2010
| | Posted on Monday, March 07, 2011 - 06:42 am: |
|
Fair enough Uncle Lee, and that is a stance I would agree with. I am all for dealing with those who are actively attempting to do us harm. My objection is over the treatment of including everyone who practices a particular religion into that group based solely on that. There are non-fundamentalist Muslims, its just those who get the most time are the fundamentalists.
Which Japs? The American citizens we put into internment camps based solely on their nationality? Even the Supreme Court, in hindsight agreed that was not right. I understand the sentiment at the time that resulted in it and probably would have been one of those calling for it, but history does not judge that particular action favorably. |
Ricart
Message Board Member
Username: Ricart
Post Number: 258
Registered: 06-2010
| | Posted on Monday, March 07, 2011 - 08:44 am: |
|
Lohman, I have no problem with the good Muslims just as I have no problems with the Japanese. I even have a Honda CRV and a Honda Shadow M/C. As far as the internment camps, as we know there were spies at Pearl Harbor and in the U.S. mainland, who was who? Pearl was as close to this country so far had come to being defeated. Of course, we have not won a war since WW2, thanks to our chicken livered politicians and Walter Cronkite and his media clones. But, that's another story.
If you are keeping up with what the Muslims are doing in Europe, you should be able to see a pattern. There and here, they are demanding more of their law. Much of Europe fell to Hitler because they were passive and somehow didn't really think He was a danger. After all, there were "good" Germans. Hitler got greedy, if you have studied WW2, you would know he really didn't want to get into a full scale war till 1945. U.S. aid to England broke up that plan.
The Muslims are better at waiting, first Europe, then the U.S. They will use our own Constitution to beat us. I'm in my 70's and probably will not see it. But just like the Nazi's, it's coming.
I don't think of Muslims as a religion, but a way of thinking, and when they are strong enough thru-out world, they will all think alike. |
Lohman446
Message Board Member
Username: Lohman446
Post Number: 416
Registered: 10-2010
| | Posted on Monday, March 07, 2011 - 08:46 am: |
|
I would argue that that Constitution, properly used, would be what prevents Sharia law in the US. Now we need to discuss how we get back to actually using the Constitution for what it was meant for. |
Redhawk4
Message Board Member
Username: Redhawk4
Post Number: 1991
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Monday, March 07, 2011 - 09:19 am: |
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Lohman you didn't understand what I said, the left wing loons and the Muslims already have their freedom of speech. I was advocating it as a good idea for the rest of us. |
Ricart
Message Board Member
Username: Ricart
Post Number: 259
Registered: 06-2010
| | Posted on Monday, March 07, 2011 - 09:33 am: |
|
OOPS, I didn't proof read the above post before I posted it. I meant to say, Japan got Hitler into WW2 4 years before he planned. While Germany was sinking ships carrying aid to England, it was Pearl that brought Germany into the war due to a treaty with Japan. Just as we got into Korea over a treaty. Both were costly mistakes for Hitler and, a few years later, the U.S.
As for as using the "Constitution for what it was meant for", you would probably get about 10 million opinions on that can of worms. Just look at the various interpretations of only the 2nd Amendment as was shown by the Supreme Court on the "right to won a handgun" ruling. |
Tranquilo
Message Board Member
Username: Tranquilo
Post Number: 501
Registered: 06-2009
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 09, 2011 - 06:17 am: |
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Tomorrow Rep.Peter King, chairman of the House Committee on National Security, will begin hearings on the relationship between islam and homegrown terrorism. It's about time - more islamic terrorist acts and foiled plots in the U.S. have occurred in the last 2 years than in the 7 previous years combined! |
Wildtim
Message Board Member
Username: Wildtim
Post Number: 281
Registered: 01-2011
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 09, 2011 - 12:10 pm: |
|
That's what happens when you have a president who thinks kicking as and taking name is a frat boy hazing ritual and learned everything he knows about the military from the Village Peoples "In the Navy". |
Lohman446
Message Board Member
Username: Lohman446
Post Number: 424
Registered: 10-2010
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 09, 2011 - 12:26 pm: |
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Lets see - Mubarek responded to peaceful protest by stepping down and now there is talk of Egypt wanting to try him. Ghadafi has already been told he is a war criminal and will be tried. What incentive does he have to step down peacefully? |
Tranquilo
Message Board Member
Username: Tranquilo
Post Number: 502
Registered: 06-2009
| | Posted on Thursday, March 10, 2011 - 07:59 am: |
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All kinds of resistance to these hearings are being made by islamist front groups and their accomplices, the lame stream media. Death threats have been made against Peter King. |
Dwalk
Message Board Member
Username: Dwalk
Post Number: 196
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Thursday, March 10, 2011 - 09:54 am: |
|
Lohman, we don't have a dog in those 'jasmine revolution' fights. Evil Muslim dictators versus evil Muslim revolutionaries. We should stop them from immigrating and bringing their violence, intolerance, and wars here though. Securing our borders would be a good start. But Obama sues Arizona for trying to enforce immigration laws. This from a guy who hasn't even shown his birth certificate.
Tranquillo, the Muslims protesting King's hearings show that Islam is 'a religion of peace' (sarcasm) by threatening his life. They're just a small fraction of the population so far, and already they're dictating to us, threatening death. We need to do something right, soon, before we wind up like those Christians in the 1915 Armenian Genocide (1.5 million murdered by Muslims, plus many Christian girls raped, forced into harems, Christian property stolen, churches burned, etc). |
Lohman446
Message Board Member
Username: Lohman446
Post Number: 428
Registered: 10-2010
| | Posted on Thursday, March 10, 2011 - 10:34 am: |
|
I agree that we cannot win that fight. Unfortunately right now we are counting on the "sanity" of the single dictators and judging that by the fact there have not been state sanctioned attacks (arguable I know). Kind of you are better off with the enemy you know then the one you do not. Frankly I think a lot of issues right now are from a diplomatic stance that cannot lead to winning. Since everyone hates us give Israel 20 or so nukes and announce we are done in the Middle East, it would probably be as effective at protecting Israel and keep us from inspiring countless generations of enemies. |
Redhawk4
Message Board Member
Username: Redhawk4
Post Number: 2004
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Thursday, March 10, 2011 - 10:36 am: |
|
These demonstrations against the hearings are a great example of what they represent and what they feel about the rest of us - it seems some will still not be taking it seriously even as the sword is sweeping down to behead them.
I'm fascinated to know what all these people making every excuse for them are really thinking, if indeed they think at all. |
Lohman446
Message Board Member
Username: Lohman446
Post Number: 429
Registered: 10-2010
| | Posted on Thursday, March 10, 2011 - 11:41 am: |
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I think the violent fundamentalists in this country represent a minority. That being said death threats should be taken seriously (motivation) and should be dealt with through our legal system. I did hear on the radio (on Hannity actually) a moderate Muslim speaking out against it and network (of Muslims) offering a reward to those who turn in the funadmentalists who are plotting. |
Redhawk4
Message Board Member
Username: Redhawk4
Post Number: 2008
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Thursday, March 10, 2011 - 01:28 pm: |
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I think if white Christians demonstrated with signs containing similar messages, they would be treated very differently by the authorities. |
Westerly1965
Message Board Member
Username: Westerly1965
Post Number: 633
Registered: 09-2010
| | Posted on Thursday, March 10, 2011 - 01:36 pm: |
|
Your right Redhawk and that is my problem with it. If we are going to allow any religion to do it then we must allow all to do it and it doesn't seem to be that way in our current PC world... |
Lohman446
Message Board Member
Username: Lohman446
Post Number: 431
Registered: 10-2010
| | Posted on Thursday, March 10, 2011 - 01:43 pm: |
|
I would actually agree with that. Freedom of religion within our laws must apply to all religions. We are not making laws that prohibit the peaceful practice of a religion (ala France and head coverings). My issue is not with the condemnation of those who violate our laws (regardless if they are trying to hide behind a religion) its with the condemnation of an entire group of people because of their religion even if they have not violated our laws.
We must apply our laws regardless of the motivation of those who break them. It seems we are good at doing this to tradition western religions. In example I am thinking of those who rely on God and do not medicate their children. We are not as neutral about applying our laws to other religions. Neutrality in applying the law, regardless of religion, is really what freedom of religion is. Granted it is also intended to keep us from making laws solely to prevent a religion, but the issue we seem to have now is neutrality. |
Uncle_lee
Message Board Member
Username: Uncle_lee
Post Number: 646
Registered: 09-2009
| | Posted on Saturday, March 12, 2011 - 05:52 am: |
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It is not JUST a religion.
Can't you understand that?????????????????? |
Dog_soldier
Message Board Member
Username: Dog_soldier
Post Number: 27
Registered: 03-2009
| | Posted on Saturday, March 12, 2011 - 09:08 am: |
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The greatest grievance that the "House of Islam" has against the rest of humanity, or "The House of War" as they call it, is that we've not repented of the error or our ways and converted to Islam.
All else builds on that. |
Naa_collector
Message Board Member
Username: Naa_collector
Post Number: 3299
Registered: 06-2009
| | Posted on Saturday, March 12, 2011 - 09:24 am: |
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I remember when the members of the NAA board celebrated because it was the first time a thread reached 25 messages. It felt like such of an accomplishment.
So much for that now. LOL. |
Westerly1965
Message Board Member
Username: Westerly1965
Post Number: 649
Registered: 09-2010
| | Posted on Saturday, March 12, 2011 - 09:32 am: |
|
LOL that's funny Dar.....this one has been going for a looooonnnnnggggg time. But for a thread this long on a topic this heated it has stayed mostly civil. Another testament to those who use this board and their ability to have a civil discussion on a topic even when they disagree. |
Heyjoe
Message Board Member
Username: Heyjoe
Post Number: 1327
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Saturday, March 12, 2011 - 12:48 pm: |
|
The House of Islam doesnt just have a bloodlust for us infidels, when we arent in the equation in a particular area, the two main sects of islam then turn on each other as to who practices the true Islam. |
Westerly1965
Message Board Member
Username: Westerly1965
Post Number: 650
Registered: 09-2010
| | Posted on Saturday, March 12, 2011 - 01:01 pm: |
|
That's true Joe its one of the reasons I have always had a hard time swallowing the whole "peaceful religion" thing when you are talking about Islam. |
Dwalk
Message Board Member
Username: Dwalk
Post Number: 200
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Sunday, March 13, 2011 - 04:18 pm: |
|
The problem with the theory of those elusive "moderate" Muslims is that if the majority of Muslims really were benign, we would already have been seeing this.
But instead, what we see is an Islam, that despite all those alleged 'vast majority of peaceful Muslims', is an Islam of decapitating, amputating, stoning, acid throwing, "honor" killing, homosexual hanging, gang raping, wife beating, bomb-vest murdering, church burning, loaded passenger jet destroying, etc, etc. |
Dwalk
Message Board Member
Username: Dwalk
Post Number: 201
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Sunday, March 13, 2011 - 04:26 pm: |
|
Two nights ago, Muslims broke into the home of a sleeping Israeli family and stabbed-to-death mom and dad, buddy and sis and baby.
Then, next day, Gazan Muslims were handing out candy in the streets over this 'heroic' victory, just like they did after 9/11. Those were the sunni scum. The shiite scum (Iranian government) also praised this atrocity. It's reminiscent of the Beslan atrocity when Muslims tortured, murdered, and raped hundreds of Russian schoolchildren in a captured school a few years ago. |
Ulysses
Message Board Member
Username: Ulysses
Post Number: 3
Registered: 09-2010
| | Posted on Monday, March 21, 2011 - 08:21 pm: |
|
It's important to know who the enemies of the United States are but it's also important to know who are "friends" are too. The link is a piece of forgotten (hidden?) history.
http://www.amconmag.com/blog/the-uss-libertys-final-chapter/ |
Redhawk4
Message Board Member
Username: Redhawk4
Post Number: 2041
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Sunday, March 27, 2011 - 11:46 am: |
|
An interesting article, that I hadn't heard about before.
I can't see what Israels motive would be for attacking a US ship that would have been effectively gathering information to assist them, the US has always had a history of being their major protector - difficult to seperate the truth from the conspiracy theory.
The middle east is indeed a curious place, and I've yet to understand exactly how the establishment of the state of Israel came about.
I know there were people of my Dad's generation who felt some bitterness over the way British soldiers were killed etc. They were also attacked by some who felt the British didn't do enough to save the Jews from the death camps following WWII - that was a bitter pill to swallow for many who'd lived, fought and sacrificed through the war, if only because it is so factually incorrect.
I think the lesson that can be learned from history regarding the whole middle east is to stay out of all conflicts there whenever possible, it always seems to end in a mess and no matter how well intentioned efforts made there may be, it always seems to backfire on anyone who gets involved. |
Heyjoe
Message Board Member
Username: Heyjoe
Post Number: 1406
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Sunday, March 27, 2011 - 02:54 pm: |
|
amen |
Silvershooter
Message Board Member
Username: Silvershooter
Post Number: 404
Registered: 06-2010
| | Posted on Sunday, March 27, 2011 - 03:43 pm: |
|
amazed this thread is still going
Isaiah 66: 7-10 suggests Israel would be reborn as a nation in one day. That happened may 14 1948
http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Peace%20Process/Guide%20to%20the%20Peace%20Process/Declaration%20of%20Establishment%20of%20State%20of%20Israel |
Bud
Message Board Member
Username: Bud
Post Number: 955
Registered: 10-2009
| | Posted on Sunday, March 27, 2011 - 05:30 pm: |
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Thank you silvershooter for your post! |
Redhawk4
Message Board Member
Username: Redhawk4
Post Number: 2042
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Sunday, March 27, 2011 - 06:12 pm: |
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Silvershooter, I was going to touch on the Biblical phrophesy in my earlier post, it may well be how it really all came about. I think the horror of the holocaust also helped in creating a receptive environment.
It's certainly an interesting passage in history, although the story is far from concluded - the events of the future could make the past pale into insignificance I fear. |
Silvershooter
Message Board Member
Username: Silvershooter
Post Number: 406
Registered: 06-2010
| | Posted on Sunday, March 27, 2011 - 06:34 pm: |
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Agreed redhawk4, we've probably only seen glimpses of the beginning if sorrows and sufferings to come. Could you imagine the recent Japanese experience except all around the world; with food and water unsafe to use followed by crop failures and famine. Certainly nothing to look forward to.
Ever seen the movie "the lighthorsemen"? About the Aussie
mounted infantry taking Beersheba. I heard there were a lot
of miraculous events during the '67 war too.
I think whoever helps Israel is blessed and for those that
resist a Jewish free state she becomes a stumbling block.
You're welcome bud, found that link with a brief google search, it made for an interesting read. I didn't know the ussr recognized the new nation after 3 days. |
