| Author | Message | ||
     Chopprs Message Board Member Username: Chopprs Post Number: 6355 Registered: 09-2009  |
Obama has signed an Executive Order that completely takes over every person and all property and business and forces people that are chosen to work for the government for free in any job whenever directed to! SLAVE LABOR!!! Congress is going NUTS and has called for his Impeachement. US Government just purchased 450 million rounds of .40 caliber ammo. The media has been ordered to not cover this story! http://theintelhub.com/2012/03/18/alert-obama-declares-peacetime-martial-law-executive-order-explained/ | ||
| Lohman446 Message Board Member Username: Lohman446 Post Number: 1785 Registered: 10-2010 |
You know when you were all talking about Obama not accepting the results of the next election unless they went his way I figured you were a bit out there. Now I think I am going to stock up on diesel fuel for the tractor and seeds. | ||
| Naa_collector Message Board Member Username: Naa_collector Post Number: 5886 Registered: 06-2009  |
OK, I'm trying really hard to figure out what you're talking about, but not coming up with much. Is this from the news conference today? | ||
| Chopprs Message Board Member Username: Chopprs Post Number: 6356 Registered: 09-2009 |
Dar listen to the YouTube on the link.....They explain it all in great depth. Obama signed an "Executive Order" on Friday. | ||
| Naa_collector Message Board Member Username: Naa_collector Post Number: 5888 Registered: 06-2009 |
I see. I can't watch YouTube videos in my cube at work without bothering co-workers, so things like this have to wait until I get home. I guess that's why I didn't understand. Thanks for the clarification. | ||
| Louiethelump Message Board Member Username: Louiethelump Post Number: 2703 Registered: 12-2010 |
I checked the White House website and it is there. It is a freshly signed executive order that potentially gives all the powers that he is saying if he decides to use them and all it requires is in "preparedness" for an emergency, and gives each member of his cabinet extensive powers. Read the order and see what it means to you. I can find NOTHING on mainstream news but did find it on a Fox Blog. | ||
| Chopprs Message Board Member Username: Chopprs Post Number: 6357 Registered: 09-2009 |
Louie, please post the link to it! I called this three years ago. He is going to play the "IRAN" game in a couple months, enact this order and there will be NO ELECTION!!!!! If we allow this to go unchecked we already are a COMMUNIST COUNTRY! | ||
| Bleak_widow Message Board Member Username: Bleak_widow Post Number: 423 Registered: 11-2010  |
It's what I mentioned in the other thread. | ||
| Chopprs Message Board Member Username: Chopprs Post Number: 6358 Registered: 09-2009 |
Here is the link. Dar you can read it for yourself! http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2012/03/16/executive-order-national-defense-resources-preparedness | ||
| Louiethelump Message Board Member Username: Louiethelump Post Number: 2704 Registered: 12-2010 |
I think he is preparing for what HE sees coming. He is FAR more informed than we are about that. Possibilities: 1) he is aware of his intentions toward Iran, and we have no idea of his intentions as he is an established liar. IF he plans on an attack of Iran, and knows they already have a nuke or two, he may expect a retaliation and will need to take charge in order to deal with that. 2) He knows that Iran has or WILL HAVE a nuke and we know they have a missile that can hit mainland USA from IRAN, and he has no intention of stopping IRAN and figures us getting hit my a single nuke would serve his plans. (Set the USA down a notch, and put him in a position to take over and disband Congress and postpone or cancel the coming election if it looks like he may use) 3) May be just general preparation for the civil unrest to come this summer with the occupy groups that work for him, and/or the personal secret police he is training with 100,000 so far taken on board as they start to go house to house disarming the public, starting in the big cities of course. These are just guesses. The biggest thing that concerns me is the lack of news on it. I would expect the mainstream to ignore it, but would have thought there would be news of it on FOX. all just guesses. | ||
| Lohman446 Message Board Member Username: Lohman446 Post Number: 1790 Registered: 10-2010 |
Either he cannot pass the agenda he wants to and is declaring martial law as an end run around the seperation of powers in order to do something he could not legally otherwise or he is putting himself in a position to use a declaration of martial law because he knows his next steps are going to cause problems In the better of the two scenarios it is a blatant diregard for his oath of office. | ||
| Naa_collector Message Board Member Username: Naa_collector Post Number: 5890 Registered: 06-2009 |
Interesting. Thanks for the link. This will take some more time to read later, as it shows that President Obama is indeed a lawyer.  It also seems that it was intentionally meant to confuse the reader. | ||
| Red14 Message Board Member Username: Red14 Post Number: 2033 Registered: 02-2009  |
That is what lawyers do. Over 90% of our 'servants' (government) are lawyers. I thank God for 2nd Amendment. The 1st Amendment has been on trial for years. PC. | ||
| 22man Message Board Member Username: 22man Post Number: 427 Registered: 10-2011 |
War, ECONOMIC collapse, asteroid, All in the Bible,,,,,,oh yeah and an eloquent dictator..... | ||
| Redhawk4 Message Board Member Username: Redhawk4 Post Number: 2977 Registered: 02-2009  |
I really don't know what to make of all this, I've read some stuff on this where they are claiming it's no big deal (link below), only renewing what's been done by previous Presidents - but at the same time no one seems to have picked up on the whole story at all in the media, so there is a lack of information. Unfortunately as I do not trust our current administration, in the slightest, it's hard not to feel very concerned. http://www.wnd.com/2012/03/executive-order-panic-martial-law-in-america/ | ||
| Bud Message Board Member Username: Bud Post Number: 2051 Registered: 10-2009 |
“I’m not ruling out the possibility that this is more than it seems,” adds Jacobson, “but unless and until someone [demonstrates any expansion of powers in the order], I’ll consider this to be routine.” “The timing of this release might have looked a little strange,” Morrissey concludes, “but this is really nothing to worry about at all.” B.S. Nothing is routine when Obama has something to do with it. He has contrived this for his own agenda. He has reason for everything he does. | ||
| Redhawk4 Message Board Member Username: Redhawk4 Post Number: 2978 Registered: 02-2009 |
That's kind of how I felt Bud, the expression "No, says William A. Jacobson, associate clinical professor at Cornell Law School" immediately made me doubt the accuracy of what was being stated thereafter as he's sounds like a "qualified academic Obama supporter" and like you I do not trust Obama or believe in coincidences where he's concerned. I still do not understand the total news blackout though, I guess there might be something about it tonight on Fox. | ||
| Redhawk4 Message Board Member Username: Redhawk4 Post Number: 2979 Registered: 02-2009 |
OK, here is a link to the one signed in 1958 by Eisenhower http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/codification/executive-order/10789.html By Clinton in 1994 http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2001-10-24/pdf/01-26990.pdf By Bush in 2003 http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2003-03-05/pdf/03-5343.pdf I haven't had a chance to read them in any depth and compare to the latest document, but they seem quite different, at a first glance regarding the intent behind them and the extent of the powers granted. | ||
| Louiethelump Message Board Member Username: Louiethelump Post Number: 2705 Registered: 12-2010 |
I am not sure, but I don't think Ike, Clinton, or Bush were training 100,000 personal troops that will answer to no one but him at the time they signed the above..... troops that Obama has said will be "trained, financed, and equipped comparably to the military" | ||
| Chopprs Message Board Member Username: Chopprs Post Number: 6361 Registered: 09-2009 |
Yes, this was a provision of the Health Care Bill and has been implemented with not whatsoever even a nod from the media. What is going on behind the scenes is an obomination and was called by Thomas Jefferson himself when he wrote the Constitution. He saw this coming over two hundred years ago. It is here now wether or not you believe it. By the end of the summer we will all be standing paupers after the government has "Acquired" our possesions and forced us to work for food coupons. Laugh if you want but watch and see......our country is over as we know it! the first indication was the takeover of the banks and no one said a word. the next thing was the takeover of the largest industry in THE WORLD, US Health Care. Next will be the guns, yes, house to house confiscation as a provision of Martial Law! Once the guns are gone the hammer will fall...We are done. | ||
| Redhawk4 Message Board Member Username: Redhawk4 Post Number: 2981 Registered: 02-2009 |
Who are they buying the 450 million rounds of 40 caliber ammo for? This is not a round used by the military, it is used by the FBI if we're talking 40 S&W, but that is a an awful lot of ammunition when you think of it in terms of 450 rounds each for 1 million people, 900 rounds each for 500,000 people etc. | ||
| Chopprs Message Board Member Username: Chopprs Post Number: 6366 Registered: 09-2009 |
EXACTLY!!!! FBI, CIA and common for espionage officers. This IS NOT a Military purchase but for his 100,000 personally picked Brown Shirts!!!!! HANNITY IS ALKING ABOUT IT!!!!!!! | ||
| Whitehorse Message Board Member Username: Whitehorse Post Number: 830 Registered: 09-2011  |
* U R G E N T * Speed up the GOP nomination. We need to choose a person that will oust Obama as soon as possible. The what ifs of this conversation can only be made worse by our indecision of having a GOP nominee. | ||
| 22man Message Board Member Username: 22man Post Number: 431 Registered: 10-2011 |
Emergency powers and guns, from the NRA website: http://nraila.org/news-issues/issues/emergency-powers-law.aspx | ||
| Heyjoe Message Board Member Username: Heyjoe Post Number: 2597 Registered: 02-2009  |
nitwit the election is the same day, the inauguration is the same day no matter how long it takes to nominate a candidate. | ||
| Whitehorse Message Board Member Username: Whitehorse Post Number: 832 Registered: 09-2011 |
Heyjoe, where is your honor and honesty ? Are you saying Obama would wait until after January 2013 ? | ||
| Heyjoe Message Board Member Username: Heyjoe Post Number: 2599 Registered: 02-2009 |
i love the way you go back and change your posts when someone points out what a boob you have been. is your last post suppossed to make any sense, cause i dont get it. you need to have your meds adjusted again. | ||
| Naa_collector Message Board Member Username: Naa_collector Post Number: 5898 Registered: 06-2009 |
And now FoxNews jumps on the executive-order story: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/03/19/obama-signs-executive-order-revising-authority-to-nationalize-resources-for/ | ||
| Naa_collector Message Board Member Username: Naa_collector Post Number: 5899 Registered: 06-2009 |
Sean Hannity picks up the ball: http://video.foxnews.com/v/1519395246001/the-real-obama-absolute-power/?playlist_id=86858 | ||
| Blitzkrieger Message Board Member Username: Blitzkrieger Post Number: 294 Registered: 05-2011 |
So on the topic of (Chopprs) house to house confiscation of firearms, I am wondering about the actual scope of reality and how this could be sucessfully accomplished without a major uprising of resistance from the general public. Yes they have bigger and more powerful weapons but....there are more of us. I just dont see how it could be done, especially if the general public united and began anhiliating them as they came. | ||
| Naa_collector Message Board Member Username: Naa_collector Post Number: 5901 Registered: 06-2009 |
And, on top of that, the bulk of the guns in the country are in a widespread geographical area. Most rural areas in the country have lots of guns. Who's gonna spread out to collect all those and how are they going to have the manpower to do so? That's going to be a monumental task, for sure. | ||
| Whitehorse Message Board Member Username: Whitehorse Post Number: 837 Registered: 09-2011 |
Blizkrieger, chaos is created first in the cities. That is why I moved to the country. | ||
| 22man Message Board Member Username: 22man Post Number: 432 Registered: 10-2011 |
That would be an interesting scenario to play out collector,,,,,,, how would the government go about confiscating guns in America? Well, cities are more easily controlled geographically. It was done in Katrina. Law-abiding citizens were handcuffed and their guns stolen by the government. There was no uprising, resistance. Most Americans, moreso in the rural areas, don't want to shoot police or US soldiers. That's not a bad thing. An armed resistance to gun confiscation would take some time to build up,,,,,perhaps too long to be effective. And when you're on a farm 10 minutes from neighbors,,,,,,, 5 family members with rifles and shotguns resisting the government with predator drones, 30 heavily armed swat or soldiers,,,,,,how many will surrender their guns? Though it's unsettling to think about the federal government confiscating guns, it's not unthinkable. It has happened in America. It has happened in Australia, Canada, Germany, you name it... We need to support the NRA financially so more state and federal laws can be signed protecting the 2nd Amendment,,,,,,,,and we need to vote out the Democrats and Obama. Then it will take decades to undo the brainwashing that Holder and the media have been attempting against the Constitution, freedom, and personal responsibility. Stock up on ammo too...... and find some good hiding places...... | ||
| Uncle_lee Message Board Member Username: Uncle_lee Post Number: 2135 Registered: 09-2009  |
"And, on top of that, the bulk of the guns in the country are in a widespread geographical area. Most rural areas in the country have lots of guns. Who's gonna spread out to collect all those and how are they going to have the manpower to do so?" U.N. Troops They won't care who they kill or for what reason. | ||
| 22man Message Board Member Username: 22man Post Number: 433 Registered: 10-2011 |
foreign UN troops might work in the major cities where liberals and peasants embrace socialism, hate America, and love handouts,,,,,, but in the rural areas, those blue helmets of foreign troops on American soil would quickly erode citizens resistance towards repelling the occupiers with force..... meaning the country folk may embrace the phrase "To ARMS!" UN troops in the cities would free up US forces to spread out to the rural areas. The government could exercise a lot of control simply by restricting communications, and food/water/ammo/gasoline(travel).... With a real or pretended biological attack or germ outbreak, people would be quarantined to their homes mostly,,,,,,,and the government forces in their hazmat suits could go house to house to 'check on the safety and welfare of the homeowner'......and while there confiscate weapons,,,,,,,if communications were down how would you call your closest neighbor to warn them that the government trucks were coming for their guns.... | ||
| Lohman446 Message Board Member Username: Lohman446 Post Number: 1798 Registered: 10-2010 |
How would they do it? The same way government does everything - they would divide and conquer. I do not know if it will be geographic limits first or technical (I expect a combination of) but it will go, over time: They are not going to go door to door through rural America first. The first series of laws will have to do with high crime areas (aka Chicago) and the "NEED" to ban guns there. Door to door sweeps will be limited and done with overwhelming man-power. Then they will go city by city until a law is passed that applies to all areas with a population density over XXXX At this point the majority of the country will be disarmed and even less concerned about gun rights - going around the rural areas will not be hard. A few standoffs sure but again it will use overwhelming man power. Technologically you have already seen start: "Sporting purposes only". Over time this will limit us to limited capacity shotguns, low capacity semis (or more likely just revolvers) and non-semi rifles. They will follow other countries leads and "military and police" calibers (9MM and 40, maybe even .45) will be banned and the guns allowed to fall out of favor. .223 will be removed and eventually any "sniper" style catridge will also be removed (30-06, .270, 7mm, etc). From there the round up will be easy enough. | ||
| Chopprs Message Board Member Username: Chopprs Post Number: 6373 Registered: 09-2009 |
Not UN roops. The Personal Security Force was part of the Health Care Bill and there are now 100,000 Troops that answer ONLY to and were hand picked by Obama. I have seen cell phone videos of them training, all dressed in BLACK!!! it is NAZI Germany all over. He is following what Hitler did almost to a "T"!!!!!! | ||
| Scag13 Message Board Member Username: Scag13 Post Number: 364 Registered: 06-2009 |
......and they are coming soon in BLACK helicopters! | ||
| Chopprs Message Board Member Username: Chopprs Post Number: 6375 Registered: 09-2009 |
......LOL, Scabby, Scabby, Scabby!  | ||
| Whitehorse Message Board Member Username: Whitehorse Post Number: 840 Registered: 09-2011 |
 | ||
| Chopprs Message Board Member Username: Chopprs Post Number: 6379 Registered: 09-2009 |
You really are a frigging dipshit. YOU POSTED THIS IN ANOTHER THREAD!!!! ...AND NOW IT IS UFOs? | ||
| Redhawk4 Message Board Member Username: Redhawk4 Post Number: 2983 Registered: 02-2009 |
I'm not saying it will happen, but considering they would control food, water, energy and communications they could certainly break most people fairly quickly. Once the hold outs are in a minority they would be classed as terrorists and could be rounded up or exterminated accordingly. I think the only reason we think it couldn't happen is because we cannot imagine the level of division and hatred in this country for it to be possible. If we truly had the likes of a modern day Adolf Hitler running things, I don't think he'd find it too hard. Divide the people, use propaganda so your liberal neighbors think it's their duty to turn you in and/or there is some kind of reward so they can be more equal than others. Once you've gained political control, the odd hold outs in the rural areas would be of no consequence and could be "conquered" at their leisure, if they band together in to some kind of army, then it would be better still as they could be attacked and destroyed head on with vastly superior military weapons. | ||
| Lohman446 Message Board Member Username: Lohman446 Post Number: 1799 Registered: 10-2010 |
Redhawk has the idea. We are not banning guns we are just limiting their possession in areas with a population density higher than _________ . Even my current concealed license does not allow me to carry my gun into entertainment venues with a capacity larger than 1200 people We are not banning guns we are just denying ownership of them to people who have not complied with the "affordable" healthcare act. We are not banning guns we are just denying ownership of them to people who have not complied with the (for example) "affordable" energy act of 2014. We are not banning guns we are just denying them to people who are not in complaince with the "affordable" food act of 2015. Pretty soon the only people who legally own them are dependent on the government and then All those not in complaince with the "unified affordable" acts are deemed to be in violation of criminal law and subject to arrest. You don't attack everyone at once you attack small groups. | ||
| Lohman446 Message Board Member Username: Lohman446 Post Number: 1800 Registered: 10-2010 |
Step one on the social front: Convince those who follow certain candidates that they are intellectually superior than everyone else. Once you have convinced them of that convince them that they are also morally superior. Use this sense of superiority to form a "we know whats best" strategy and everyone who opposes you is a childlike in intelligence and morality giving you the right to use government paternalism to control their life. Historically it has worked. | ||
| Bleak_widow Message Board Member Username: Bleak_widow Post Number: 428 Registered: 11-2010 |
Lohman, we are all on the same side. I happen to follow a candidate who has based a 30 year career on ideas of a small government which protects our God-given rights, including the right to defend ourselves. Would Ron Paul erode our gun rights? Absolutely not. Would Romney? He has expressed pride in doing exactly that when he was Governor of Massachusetts. Who do you trust? | ||
| Naa_collector Message Board Member Username: Naa_collector Post Number: 5902 Registered: 06-2009 |
With regards to U.N. troops invading rural America . . . . Take the movie _Red Dawn_, replace the South Americans and Russians with U.N. Troops and have Wolverines ALL OVER the rural areas across the country. We'll see how the superior-equiped forces do across an entire continent. That's a nightmare scenario for them. I don't think it's going to come to that anyway. Best to follow the scout motto and BE PREPARED, tho. | ||
| Louiethelump Message Board Member Username: Louiethelump Post Number: 2710 Registered: 12-2010 |
Won't be UN troops. will be his Black Panther trained, ACORN financed personal police force. He presumes gun owners are predominantly white, and his force is and will be predominantly black and will for sure be angry at whites after their training if they were not before it. Expect them to be brutal and him to be protective of them, and cover for whatever they do. | ||
| Naa_collector Message Board Member Username: Naa_collector Post Number: 5905 Registered: 06-2009 |
Interesting. The one thing about the President and his friends, tho--most of them are NOT trained in using firearms. They are against them. He'll have to rely upon gangsters and the miltiary to support him in taking guns by force. But, again, I don't think it's going to come to this, really. | ||
| Roguets1 Message Board Member Username: Roguets1 Post Number: 258 Registered: 09-2011 |
Let's not forget our neighbor friendly Reserve Units.... I do not believe they would willingly fall for attacking their friends and neighbors. It may take them a little time to figure what was going on but in my area they say they would not do it and in fact would probably fight with us. | ||
| Chopprs Message Board Member Username: Chopprs Post Number: 6382 Registered: 09-2009 |
......okay, then what is the 450 million rounds of .40 S&W for?????? | ||
| Naa_collector Message Board Member Username: Naa_collector Post Number: 5906 Registered: 06-2009 |
BUT who is reporting this ammo has been purchased? I only found it in the comments section of your above link. That's hearsay. What's the source? I suppose the reasoning behind posting this information is that .40S&W is more of a police round than a military round, so presumably this "force who is supposed to conduct confiscation" of guns and other assets for "the emergency" is going to be local police forces? Since, police forces reside under the Executive Branch, I assume, and thus under the direction of the Commander in Chief. | ||
| Bud Message Board Member Username: Bud Post Number: 2053 Registered: 10-2009 |
Why in God's name does the Obama Administration need 450 million rounds of ammo? I would almost be willing to wager that we did not use 450 million rounds of ammo when we invaded Europe on D-Day. I would bet that holds true for Iwo Jima and the entire South Pacific. What is this administration going to do with that much ammo for pistols? Keep in mind we are talking about hand guns here. With the Executive Order from March 16, 2012 and the now infamous Defense bill signed on December 31, 2011 that allows the United States Military to be used on American soil in peacetime, I cannot come up with a good answer. The only one I can come to, is in fact what most would call a conspiracy theory. As my grandfather used to tell us like most of yours told you. This is beginning to walk, quack and look like a duck. I do not know about you America, but this old cowboy is getting very nervous. | ||
| Whitehorse Message Board Member Username: Whitehorse Post Number: 841 Registered: 09-2011 |
" I have seen cell phone videos of them training, all dressed in BLACK!!! " Choppers , 20MAR , 7:16 AM  | ||
| Whitehorse Message Board Member Username: Whitehorse Post Number: 842 Registered: 09-2011 |
Is Choppers making fun of us for his "happy" email buddies entertainment ? | ||
| Heyjoe Message Board Member Username: Heyjoe Post Number: 2605 Registered: 02-2009 |
chopprs i warned you not to tease the nit wit with anything homosexual. now you have him all hot and bothered and he cant get your "happy email buddies" off his fevered mind. | ||
| Louiethelump Message Board Member Username: Louiethelump Post Number: 2711 Registered: 12-2010 |
Bud: A minimal firearms training program for just basics will require about 1000 rounds fired per trainee. A better program will take 2000. Obama currently has 100,000 under training. If they just cover the basics and do a firearms program using 1000 rounds per trooper, that is 10 million rounds of ammo. Now figure the normal use of the FBI, CIA, Fed Marshalls and all of that in all of the gun carry services of the Federal Government, and the additional growth of his new military service, I don't find that an unreasonable number of rounds. And you are way off on WWII ammo counts. The Military buys ammo by the hundreds of millions of rounds............... | ||
| Naa_collector Message Board Member Username: Naa_collector Post Number: 5909 Registered: 06-2009 |
Yah, but I hear they are now destroying the used brass to sell as scrap, rather than sell it as a higher profit to reloaders, who then sell it to the general public. | ||
| Westerly1965 Message Board Member Username: Westerly1965 Post Number: 2371 Registered: 09-2010  |
OK I read over the Order just published and the three previous orders last night after I saw this thread. They are pretty close to the same though I will say Obama's seemed a bit more in depth it was still pretty comparable to the ones signed by both Clinton and Bush II. That said I think the timing is a bit off on it and that probably bothers me more than anything else. Lets assume for a second that Obama is not intending to use a power grab to take over the world in the next 8 months. Then why did he feel the need to publish this order? He did make ALOT of changes to the people in power and used specific Government Employees in alot of the places that used to say FEMA or FEMA Director. So maybe they are standard changes and needed to be updated but now? I think of the entire thread here Louie is probably the closest when he says that the POTUS knows something we don't about Iran. Something they have managed to keep hidden from the Lamestream media. (Remember Osama we didn't know for quite awhile after it happened that it was going to happen stuff can be kept quiet) That said IF Iran has a nuke and IF they have the technology to throw it at us we COULD potentially have a serious situation on our hands. This is the reason I could not understand why nobody screamed when Clinton or Bush signed these orders or when the Patriot Act was passed. Regarding the 450 million rounds of .40 other than the comments in the thread link posted at the start of this thread I can find NO evidence ANYWHERE that says this is true. Now it might be but until there is a substantiated source of this I would call it heresay. I have heard from several other people as well as some of the guys here that Obama is training a force of 100,000 troops that answer only to him etc etc etc. That would be a good use of all those rounds of ammo. BUT if you think about it carefully compared to the number of gun owners in this country 100,000 even well trained troops would have one hell of a job on their hands to take the guns in a door to door snatching scenario. And if they come marching down the street lock step dressed in all Black you better believe they are going to see similar resistance to what UN troops would see on our soil. There's still an awful lot of guns and good folks in this country to. Couple that with the fact that most (note I say most not all) of the police force in this country is not going to cooperate with a gun grab you would have a serious problem making it happen. In conclusion I don't like this order but I didn't like Clinton's and I didn't like Bush's and we made it through them and this far. I will keep digging on that huge ammo purchase and if I can come up with anything to substantiate it I will post it here. If anybody else finds any further info on it I would like to see it. Also lets not forget this will not be the first POTUS with a shadow army. Remember Bush and Blackwater? While not "his" private army they were mercs on the Government payroll by his doing. AND they weren't the first and won't be the last.. | ||
| Lohman446 Message Board Member Username: Lohman446 Post Number: 1802 Registered: 10-2010 |
Westerly one point of logic is off. 100K troops vs the whole country would be a problem. 100K troops vs small portions of this country at a time? No problem. They would not fight the battle everywhere at once they would fight it in one small area at a time. | ||
| Naa_collector Message Board Member Username: Naa_collector Post Number: 5911 Registered: 06-2009 |
Westerly, I think that's well thought out and well stated. It's concerning and disconcerting, but I don't yet see a smoking gun. However, I sense the temperature in the pot rising a little with this and most of the frogs don't seem to be noticing. | ||
| Westerly1965 Message Board Member Username: Westerly1965 Post Number: 2372 Registered: 09-2010 |
Lohmann ~ I would agree with you on some fronts. But as pockets of resistance pop up the numbers in his army will dwindle will he train more? Sure he will but so will we and it will get harder and harder for them. He will have a hard time garnering support from his own military as well I am not saying it couldn't happen I am saying it is a large task. Dar ~ I agree it is concerning but your right just based on the info and the evidence we have I don't yet see a smoking gun either. It does raise the temperature in the pot a little bit and it does motivate us to get out the vote at the upcoming election. It is time to remove Obama from office but I don't think any of us disagree on that! | ||
| Naa_collector Message Board Member Username: Naa_collector Post Number: 5913 Registered: 06-2009 |
Yeah, let's turn off the gas in time and save all the frogs! | ||
| Bud Message Board Member Username: Bud Post Number: 2054 Registered: 10-2009 |
Louie, I should have posted where the info came from--- my bad 450 Million rounds of Ammo for Obama? Is it true? Press Release: March 12, 2012, 8:30 a.m. EDT ATK Secures .40 Caliber Ammunition Contract with Department of Homeland Security, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (DHS, ICE) �ATK Wins Five-Year, Indefinite Delivery/Indefinite Quantity Contract for .40 Caliber Ammunition from DHS, ICE �Additional .40 Caliber Ammunition Contract with 450 Million Round Potential Demonstrates ATK�s Leadership in Ammunition Manufacturing. ANOKA, Minn., March 12, 2012 /PRNewswire via COMTEX/ � ATK /quotes/zigman/217145/quotes/nls/atk ATK +0.25% announced that it is being awarded an Indefinite Delivery/Indefinite Quantity (IDIQ) agreement from the Department of Homeland Security, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (DHS, ICE) for .40 caliber ammunition. This contract features a base of 12 months, includes four option years, and will have a maximum volume of 450 million rounds. ATK was the incumbent and won the contract with its HST bullet, which has proven itself in the field. The special hollow point effectively passes through a variety of barriers and holds its jacket in the toughest conditions. HST is engineered for 100-percent weight retention, limits collateral damage, and avoids over-penetration. �We are proud to extend our track record as the prime supplier of .40 caliber duty ammunition for DHS, ICE,� said Ron Johnson, President of ATK�s Security and Sporting group. �The HST is a proven design that will continue to serve those who keep our borders safe.� ATK will produce the ammunition at the Federal Cartridge Company facility in Anoka, Minn. Deliveries are expected to begin in June. ATK is an aerospace, defense, and commercial products company with operations in 22 states, Puerto Rico, and internationally. News and information can be found on the Internet at www.atk.com . Certain information discussed in this press release constitutes forward-looking statements as defined in the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. Although ATK believes that the expectations reflected in such forward-looking statements are based on reasonable assumptions, it can give no assurance that its expectations will be achieved. Forward-looking information is subject to certain risks, trends, and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from those projected. Among those factors are: changes in governmental spending, budgetary policies and product sourcing strategies; the company�s competitive environment; the terms and timing of awards and contracts; economic conditions; the supply, availability and costs of raw materials and components; or reliance on a key supplier. ATK undertakes no obligation to update any forward-looking statements. For further information on factors that could impact ATK, and statements contained herein, please refer to ATK�s most recent Annual Report on Form 10-K and its subsequent quarterly report on Form 10-Q and current reports on Form 8-K filed with the SEC. My Opinion: The above is in fact the actual press release from ATK Manufacturing that manufactures the ammunition. My question is this. Why in God�s name does the Obama Administration need 450 million rounds of ammo? I would almost be willing to wager that we did not use 450 million rounds of ammo when we invaded Europe on D-Day. I would bet that holds true for Iwo Jima and the entire South Pacific. What is this administration going to do with that much ammo for pistols? Keep in mind we are talking about hand guns here. With the Executive Order from March 16, 2012 and the now infamous Defense bill signed on December 31, 2011 that allows the United States Military to be used on American soil in peacetime, I cannot come up with a good answer. The only one I can come to, is in fact what most would call a conspiracy theory. As my grandfather used to tell us like most of yours told you. This is beginning to walk, quack and look like a duck. I do not know about you America, but this old cowboy is getting very nervous. 450 M Rounds for these pistols? LinkedInShare | ||
| Naa_collector Message Board Member Username: Naa_collector Post Number: 5914 Registered: 06-2009 |
Here's a question for you guys then: How many rounds do you guys suppose are in the hands of law abiding Americans, who also own the firearms to shoot them? My bet is more probably much more than that--and by far. | ||
| Westerly1965 Message Board Member Username: Westerly1965 Post Number: 2373 Registered: 09-2010 |
Anybody have a count on how many DHS and ICE guys we have employed right now? That might give us some insight into this. Note that is says "450 Million Round Potential Demonstrates ATK Leadership in Ammunition Manufacturing. " Potential means just that potential orders could be that many. It also says "ATK Wins Five-Year, Indefinite Delivery/Indefinite Quantity Contract for .40 Caliber Ammunition from DHS, ICE " Good info though I will have to go do some digging on ATK. | ||
| Lohman446 Message Board Member Username: Lohman446 Post Number: 1803 Registered: 10-2010 |
Westerly what pockets of resistance? Despite all the tough talk was there any resistance coming to the aid of Waco? Ruby Ridge? No. The government controls the media which controls the information. These raids are going to be raids on "an armed criminal organization". Noone is going to mention the crime is owning firearms. | ||
| Westerly1965 Message Board Member Username: Westerly1965 Post Number: 2374 Registered: 09-2010 |
Lohmann ~ Have you lost all faith in People? Are you saying that yourself and your neighbors will lay down your guns when this "Army" shows up on your doorstep? Or will you fight back as if you might have a spine hidden somewhere? The folks around me WILL resist. Will we die? We might. That's the reality of what your talking about. The situation queried was a door to door gun snatching. No amount of cover up from the media is going to hide that. People are going to know whats happening. You can roll over and hand them your guns if you want to. I won't and neither will my neighbors. You might find us lying dead in a ditch afterwards but by god well be lying in a pile of brass.. | ||
| Lohman446 Message Board Member Username: Lohman446 Post Number: 1804 Registered: 10-2010 |
Will people resist? Yes people will resist. However people are going to resist only when it impacts them directly (maybe their neighbors). The fact of the matter is facing overwhelming odds and a seige scenario it is unlikely your resistance amounts to much. As it will be a stand off with "armed criminals" other groups not under seige will not come to your aid. Your neighbors in Cali have not exactly shown a willingess to protect gun rights in the past. | ||
| Westerly1965 Message Board Member Username: Westerly1965 Post Number: 2375 Registered: 09-2010 |
Lohman ~ The scenario above is not about gun rights or liberals. It's an us vs them scenario, you know, like I have been telling you we are in FOR YEARS NOW!! If they do it in the form you mention it will be much more manageable yes indeed. BUT that was not the context of the thread the context of the thread was a door to door seizure of guns and 100k guys is simply not enough to do that. They couldn't seize the registered guns with that many guys in a door to door scenario. Slowly over many years you bet they could do it. BUT if that is the case than its the evil Obama and his admin that are orchestrating it won't it take longer than he has in office? If we vote him out in the fall then the problem will completely go away right? Because a Conservative President would never do it right? Or wait maybe it is us against them and it really doesn't matter what side you stand on? | ||
| Lohman446 Message Board Member Username: Lohman446 Post Number: 1805 Registered: 10-2010 |
It is when the "door to door" is applied to small groups of "criminals" at a time. Likely those who fail to participate in the "affordable" health care act future "affordable" food acts, "affordable" energy acts, and the like. Of course its an us versus them. THe moment we started to allow an elite ruling class (by making them exempt from the very laws they pass in some cases) we set the path that will lead to it. I don't think it is necessarily with Obama but I think he is laying more ground work that will eventually lead to it. | ||
| Westerly1965 Message Board Member Username: Westerly1965 Post Number: 2377 Registered: 09-2010 |
So you really believe that 100k guys are gonna start out in small pockets on the east coast and seize guns over and over and over and over and over again as they work their way across the country and none of us are gonna notice that? | ||
| Lohman446 Message Board Member Username: Lohman446 Post Number: 1806 Registered: 10-2010 |
How many people have military style weapons that would be needed for a "well regulated" militia and the most effective resistance? And well regulated met well supplied especially when you consider the historical documents around it. Do I think, over time, it can be done? I think it is already being done | ||
| Westerly1965 Message Board Member Username: Westerly1965 Post Number: 2378 Registered: 09-2010 |
I think you underestimate the gun ownership in this country and have lost all faith in your fellow countrymen. Do I think over time it can be done sure it could I never disputed that AGAIN the context of the thread was a door to door gun grab sometime between now and the election in November I don't think that's enough time. I live in Commiefornia yet I know at least a dozen local guys with AR's and lots and lots of ammo for them. I think we could put together a pretty well regulated militia if we needed to. Many states already have private ones there is a group not far from me. They consist of a couple of thousand guys all well armored. Is it enough NO but I bet they aren't the only ones. Being that I live in one of the most liberal gun hating states in the country I would have to think that there are many many more of them back there in America. | ||
| Lohman446 Message Board Member Username: Lohman446 Post Number: 1807 Registered: 10-2010 |
It has already happened, or started to happen. "a well regulated milita" referred to regulated as in supplied to military levels. How many privately owned military weapons are around - be they "destructive devices" or automatic weapons? The fact of the matter is over time we have allowed these rights to be erroded. There has not been the mass rising. Forgive me if I do not think that there is a reason to expect one. | ||
| Westerly1965 Message Board Member Username: Westerly1965 Post Number: 2379 Registered: 09-2010 |
"There has not been the mass rising." There also has not been a small army of 100k guys dressed in black and walking in lockstep going door to door raping and pillaging and grabbing guns. That was the context of thread. Forgive me if I feel that moral men will stand up and do something if that were to happen.. | ||
| Naa_collector Message Board Member Username: Naa_collector Post Number: 5918 Registered: 06-2009 |
I have my "Fun Guns" and I have my "Fan Guns." While there is some overlap, they are NOT the same thing. "Fun Guns" are obvious. "Fan Guns" are those I keep for when the "$#!@ Hits the Fan" scenarios. I also call them my "Poopy Fan Guns." They are not the guns I normally shoot when I go out plinking, although I do get them out often to practice. (They are also fun to shoot!) I also have my "Fan Gun Ammo," but I'm sure I do not have enough. (I certainly don't have 450 million rounds!) This ammo I do NOT shoot. (Example is a 7.62x39 sealed tuna can.) I'm hoping I never need my "Fan Guns," but I have them in case I do. (My "Fan Guns and Ammo" are mostly 7.62x39 and 9mm. I probably need to get an AR-15, tho.) | ||
| Louiethelump Message Board Member Username: Louiethelump Post Number: 2715 Registered: 12-2010 |
"So you really believe that 100k guys are gonna start out in small pockets on the east coast and seize guns over and over and over and over and over again as they work their way across the country and none of us are gonna notice that?" No, I think they may start on both coasts as that is where the big populations are. California's population has stood by while the state has taxed them almost to extinction, barred what animals they can own, what kind of cars they can drive, and specified where and to who they can sell and buy guns and what guns they can sell and cannot, and the Californians have stood by and accepted and buckled under and done NOTHING. And you think they are going to stand up with a legal order to take their guns with 50 armed men at their door? REALLY???????? Yes, the country will notice. They will say "tut tut, I am glad that they are only doing it in California" and then plug in whatever state or circumstance fits to make it work. That is HUMAN Nature. People sit back and call me an alarmist while it goes on in THEIR town and state right in front on them and they do NOTHING. This is EXACTLY how it is done, and it is written in the text book how to do it, and it is going right by the book. The majority of the country sits on the fence and says it won't happen. UNTIL IT DOES. Then it is too late. | ||
| Westerly1965 Message Board Member Username: Westerly1965 Post Number: 2380 Registered: 09-2010 |
"barred what animals they can own, what kind of cars they can drive" Really? What animals can I not own and what cars can I not buy? | ||
| Lohman446 Message Board Member Username: Lohman446 Post Number: 1808 Registered: 10-2010 |
There is a saying First they came for the communists. I did not speak up because I was not a communist. Then they came for the socialists, I did not speak up because I was not a socialist. Then they came for the ill. I did not speak up for I was not ill. Next the came for the Catholics. I did not speak up, I was not a Catholic Then they came for the Jews. I did not speak up. I am not a Jew Then they came for me. Noone was left to speak up. Martin Niemoller - this quote is never exact and is presented in many forms but it is in reference to the Nazi occupation. People tend to allow it to happen when it is not to them. We have allowed it in the past in gun control I have no reason to think we will not allow it in the future. There are proud words spoken by many but action in history suggests the words are bravado and little more | ||
| Lohman446 Message Board Member Username: Lohman446 Post Number: 1809 Registered: 10-2010 |
While you wait for the men in black to show up and say "that is when I will act" they erode your liberties little by litte by making you more and more dependent on the government. You are watching for the invisible attacker in the mist while you are pick pocketed. | ||
| Westerly1965 Message Board Member Username: Westerly1965 Post Number: 2381 Registered: 09-2010 |
So if your so sure its gonna happen no matter what then why debate it? You obviously feel its over anyway why bother anymore? | ||
| Naa_collector Message Board Member Username: Naa_collector Post Number: 5922 Registered: 06-2009 |
Well, since as far back as the 70's, California has applied additional requirements to cars sold new in the state. I once owned a 1972 FIAT 850 spider, which was a really fun car to drive! On a plate somewhere, I believe it was in the engine compartment, it said it complied with California regulations at the time of manufacture. Even Italy had to jump thru hoops to sell cars in California. Eventually, additional regulations in the US, and not just in California, prompted FIAT to move out of hte US market altogether--until recently, when they acrquired Chrysler (so much for the "American" auto bailout, eh?). And, lots of animals are illegal to own--especially for residents of cities, of which California has LOTS of BIG population ones. My son is in California right now, but I would never live there. (Visiting for a couple weeks every few years is more than enough.) | ||
| Lohman446 Message Board Member Username: Lohman446 Post Number: 1810 Registered: 10-2010 |
Nah - I don't feel its over. I feel individual liberty starts with individual responsibility. The government will be very good at telling people who rely on it for food what they must do - those who can and will supply there own not so much. It will be the individual level survivalists and those who live "off the grid" that will know true freedom and protect liberty at an individual level, not the militias. | ||
| Chopprs Message Board Member Username: Chopprs Post Number: 6385 Registered: 09-2009 |
the point is that Scumbama works for us. We ARE NOT his subjects nor do we need him to have absolute power over us. we DID NOT elect him to do that. What he has done is TREASON and we all know the punisment for that! In the least he should be Impeached and then arrested..... | ||
| Louiethelump Message Board Member Username: Louiethelump Post Number: 2716 Registered: 12-2010 |
Wes: Here you go. These are the one banned from possession or ownership by STATE law. Others will be banned in other localities, but there are too many to list for you. Do your own homework. Page one: 1. CLASS AVES - BIRDS A. Larks - Family Alaudidae Skylark, Alauda arvensis - (D) B. Cuckoos - Family Cuculidae All species -(D) C. Crows, Ravens, Rooks, Jackdaws – Family Corvidae All species -(D) D. Thrushes, Blackbirds, Fieldfare - Family Turdidae 1. European blackbird, Turdus merula -(D) 2. Missel thrush, Turdus viscivorus -(D) 3. Fieldfare, Turdus pilaris -(D) 4. Song thrush, Turdus musicus -(D) E. Starling, Mynahs - Family Sturnidae All species - (D), except Sturnus vulgaris (Starling) and Gracula religiosa or Eulabes religiosa (Hill mynahs), and Leucopsar rothschildi (Rothchild's mynah) are not restricted. F. Sparrows, Weavers, Queleas - Family Ploceidae 1. Sparrows, Genus Passer - All species - (D) except Passer domesticus (English house sparrow) is not restricted. 2. Madagascar weaver, Foudia madagascariensis -(D) 3. Baya weaver, Ploceus baya -(D) 4. Quelas, Genus Quelea - All species- (D) G. Waxbills, Munias, Ricebirds - Family Estrildidae 1. Java sparrow, Padda oryzivora -(D) H. Yellowhammer - Family Emberizidae Yellowhammer, Emberiza citrinella -(D) I. Falcons, Eagles, Hawks, Vultures - Order Falconiformes All species (D) J. Owls - Order Strigiformes All species (D) K. Bulbuls or Fruit Thrushes - Family Pycnonotidae Red-whiskered bulbul, Pycnonotus jocosus - (D). L. Whiteeyes - Family Zosteropidae Genus Zosterops - All species(D). M. Parrots, Parakeets - Family Psittacidae Monk or Quaker parakeet, Myiopsitta monachus -(D). N. Ducks, Geese, and Swans –Family Anatidae 1. Mute swan, Cygnus olor – (D) 2. CLASS MAMMALIA - MAMMALS A. Monkeys, Apes - Order Primates All species (W) except Family Hominidae - not restricted. B. Sloths, Anteaters, Armadillos, etc., - Order Edentata. All species: 1. Armadillos- Family Dasypodidae- All species (D) 2. Sloths- Family Bradypodidae- (W). 3. Anteaters- Family Myrmecophagidae- (W). C. Marsupials or Pouched Animals - Order Marsupialia All species- (W). D. Shrews, Moles, Hedgehogs, etc., - Order Insectivora All species -(D). E. Gliding Lemurs - Order Dermoptera All species -(D) F. Bats - Order Chiroptera All species -(D) G. Spiny Anteaters, Platypuses - Order Monotremata All species -(W) H. Pangolins, Scaly Anteaters - Order Pholidota All species -(W) I. Pikas, Rabbits, and Hares - Order Lagomorpha All species, (D), except domesticated races of rabbits and hares of the Family Leporidae not restricted. J. Hamster, Field Mice, Voles, Muskrats, Gerbils, Squirrels, Chipmunks, Woodchucks, and Prairie Dogs - Order Rodentia All species (D), except: a. Muskrats, Ondatra zibethica - Not restricted under conditions set forth in Fish and Game Code Section 2250; b. Domesticated races of golden hamsters of the species Mesocricetus auratus and domesticated races of dwarf hamsters of the Genus Phodopus not restricted; c. Domesticated races of rats or mice (white or albino; trained, dancing or spinning, laboratory-reared); not restricted; b. Domesticated races of guinea pigs of the species Cavia porcellus not restricted; and e. Domesticated races of chinchillas of the species Chinchilla laniger not restricted. K. Raccoons, Ringtailed Cats, Kinkajous, Coatis, Cacomistles, Weasels, Ferrets, Skunks, Polecats, Stoats, Mongoose, Civets, Wolves, Foxes, Coyotes, Lions, Tigers, Ocelots, Bobcats, Servals, Leopards, Jaguar, Cheetahs, Bears, etc. - Order Carnivora | ||
| Westerly1965 Message Board Member Username: Westerly1965 Post Number: 2384 Registered: 09-2010 |
Chops ~ I completely agree with that statement. Problem is we have already set precedent allowing it. We didn't impeach Clinton when he did this and we didn't impeach Bush when he did it. So how can we now say were going to impeach you for the same exact thing that others did with no repercussion? | ||
| Louiethelump Message Board Member Username: Louiethelump Post Number: 2717 Registered: 12-2010 |
Page two: 1. Family Felidae - All species (W) except: a. Acinonyx jubatus (Cheetahs) - (D). b. Domestic cat and hybrids of domestic cats are not restricted. 2. Family Canidae - All species- (W). a. Wolf hybrids Canis familiaris (domestic dog) x Canis lupus (wolf). i. Any F1 (first) generation wolf hybrid whelped on or before February 4, 1988 may be possessed under permit from the department. ii. No state permit is required to possess the progeny of F1 generation wolf hybrids, but cities and counties may prohibit possession or require a permit. b. Domesticated dogs are not restricted. 3. Family Viveridae- All species- (D). 4. Family Procyonidae- All species- (D), except: a. Ailuris fulgens (Lesser panda)- (W). b. Aiuropoda melanoleuca- (Giant panda)- (W). c. Bassaricus astutus (Ringtail or Ringtailed cat)- (W). d. Jentinkia sumichrasti (Mexican and Central American Cacomistle)- (W). 5. Family Mustelidae - All species- (D), except: a. Ambloynx cinerea (Oriental small-clawed otter) -(W). b. Aonyx capensis (African clawless otter) - (W). c. Pteronura brasiliensis (Giant otter)- (W). d. All species of the genus Lutra (River otters)- (W). 6. All others -(W). L. Aardvarks - Order Tubulidentata All species - (W). M. Elephants - Order Proboscidae All species -(W). N. Hyraxes - Order Hyracoidae All species -(W). O. Dugongs, Manatees - Order Sirenia All species - (W). P. Horses, Zebras, Tapirs, Rhinoceroses, etc. - Order Perissodactyla All species (W) except Family Equidae - is not restrictedt. Q. Swine, Peccaries, Camels, Deer, Elk, Moose, Antelopes, Cattle, Goats, Sheep, etc., - Order Artiodactyla All species (D) except: 1. Boss taurus and Bos indicus (Domestic cattle) Bos grunniens (Yak); Bubalus bulalis (Asian water buffalo); Ovis aries (Domestic sheep); Capra hircus (Domestic goat); Sus scrofa domestica (Domestic swine); Llama glama (Llama); Llama pacos (Alpaca); Llama guanicoe (Guanaco); Hybrids of llama, alpaca, and guanacos; Camelus bactrianus and Camelus dromedarius (Camels); and Bison bison (American bison) are not restricted; | ||
| Louiethelump Message Board Member Username: Louiethelump Post Number: 2718 Registered: 12-2010 |
Page three: 2. Elk, Cervus - A permit may be issued for species of elk (Genus Cervus) which are already maintained within California; and 3. Permits may be issued pursuant to Section 676, Title 14, CCR, for importing, breeding, slaughter and sale of the meat and other parts of fallow deer (Dama dama) for commercial purposes. 3. FROGS, TOADS, SALAMANDERS - CLASS AMPHIBIA A. Toads - Family Bufonidae Giant toad or marine toad group, (Bufo marinus, Bufo paracnemis, Bufo horribilis) and all other large toads from Mexico and Central and South America -(D). B. Tongueless Toads - Family Pipidae All species of genus Xenopus -(D). C. Mole Salamanders – Family Ambystomatidae All species of tiger salamanders, genus Ambystoma- (D) D. Neotropical Frogs – Family Leptodactylidae Common Coqui or Coqui frog, Eleutherodactylus coqui- (D) 4. JAWLESS FISHES - CLASS AGNATHA A. Lampreys - Family Petromyzontidae All nonnative species -(D). 5. BONY FISHES - CLASS OSTEICHTHYES A. Temperate Basses - Family Percichthyidae 1. White perch, Morone americana -(D). 2. White bass, Morone chrysops -(D). B. Herrings - Family Clupeidae Gizzard shad, Dorosoma cepedianum - (D). C. Drums - Family Sciaenidae Freshwater drum, Aplodinotus grunniens - (D). D. Characins - Family Characidae 1. Banded tetra, Astyanax fasciatus -(D). 2. All species of piranhas, genera Serrasalmus, Serrasalmo, Pygocentrus, Taddyella, Rooseveltiella, and Pygopristis -(D). 3. Tigerfish, Hoplias malabaricus - (D) E. Trouts - Family Salmonidae Atlantic salmon, Salmo salar - Restricted in the Smith River watershed- (D). F. Gars - Family Lepisosteidae All species -(D). G. Bowfins - Family Amiidae All species -(D). H. Livebearers - Family Poeciliidae Pike killifish, Belonesox belianus- (D). I. Snakeheads - Family Channidae All species -(D). J. Carps or Minnows - Family Cyprinidae 1. Ide, Leuciscus idus -(D). 2. Grass carp, Ctenopharyngodon idellus – (D); except that permits may be issued to a person, organization or agency for possession of triploid grass carp, under conditions set forth in Section 238.6. 3. Silver carp, Hypophthalmichthys molitrix- (D). 4. Bighead carp, Aristichthys nobilis -(D). 5. Largescale Silver carp, Hypophthalmichthys harmandi- (D). 6. Black carp, Mylopharyngodon piceus – (D). K. Parasitic Catfishes - Family Trichomycteridae (Pygidiidae) All species -(D). L. Whalelike Catfishes - Family Cetopsidae All species -(D). M. Labyrinth Catfishes - Family Clariidae All species - of genera Clarias, Dinotopterus, and Heterobranchus -(D). N. Airsac Catfishes - Family Heteropneustidae (Saccobranchidae) All species -(D). O. Cichlids - Family Cichlidae 1. Banded Tilapia, Tilapia sparrmanii - (D). 2. Redbelly tilapia, Tilapia zillii - (D), except permit may be issued to a person or agency for importation, transportation, or possession in the counties of San Bernardino, Los Angeles, Orange, Riverside, San Diego, and Imperial. 3. Blue tilapia, Tilapia aurea -(D). 4. Nile tilapia, Tilapia nilotica -(D). P. Freshwater eels - Family Anguillidae All species of genus Anguilla - (D). Q. Pikes - Family Esocidae All species- (D). R. Perches - Family Percidae 1. Yellow perch, Perca flavescens -(D). 2. Walleye, Stizostedion vitreum - (D). S. Suckers - Family Catostomidae All members of the genus Ictiobus - Buffalos - (D). T. Killifishes - Family Cyprinodontidae Sheepshead minnow, Cyprinodon variegatus - (D). U. Lates Perches – Family Latidae Barramundi (also known as Barramundi perch or Silver barramundi), Lates calcarifer – (D). 6. CARTILAGINOUS FISHES - CLASS ELASMOBRANCHIOMORPHI A. Requium sharks - Family Carcharhinidae All species of freshwater sharks, of the genus Carcharhinus - (D). B. River Stingrays - Family Potamotrygonidae All species - (D). 7. REPTILES - CLASS REPTILIA A. Crocodiles - order Crocodilia - Crocodiles, Caimans, Alligators, Gavials All species - (D). B. Snapping turtles - Family Chelyridae All species - (D). C. Cobra, Coral Snakes, Mambas, Kraits, etc. - Family Elapidae All species - (D). D. Adders and Vipers - Family Viperidae All species - (D). E. Pit Vipers - Family Crotalidae All species - (D), except westerm rattlesnake, Crotalus viridis; western diamondback rattlesnake, Crotalus atrox; red diamond rattlesnake, Crotalus ruber, mojave rattlesnake, Crotalus scutulatus; speckled rattlesnake, Crotalus mitchelli and sidewinder, Crotalus cerastes not restricted. F. Colubrids - Family Colubridae 1. Boomslang, Dispholidus typus - (D). 2. Bird or Vine snake, Theoltornis kitlandii - (D). 3. Watersnakes, all species of Genus Nerodia- (D). G. Family Helodermatidae 1. Reticulate Gila monster, Heloderma suspectum suspectum - (D). | ||
| Louiethelump Message Board Member Username: Louiethelump Post Number: 2719 Registered: 12-2010 |
Page 4: 8. CLASS CRUSTACEA - CRUSTACEANS A. All species of family Cambaridae - crayfish etc. (D), except Procambarus clarkii and Orconectes virilis not restricted. B. All species of the genus Eriocheir -(D). 9. SLUGS, SNAILS - CLASS GASTROPODA A. New Zealand mudsnail, Potamopyrgus antipodarum B. All nonnative species of slugs and land snails - (D), except: 1. Decollate snail, Rumina decollata in the counties of San Bernardino, Riverside, Imperial, Orange, San Diego, Los Angeles, Ventura, Kern, Fresno, Madera, Tulare and Santa Barbara not restricted with the concurrence of the appropriate county Agricultural commissioners. 2. Brown garden snail, Helix aspersa not prohibited. C. Channel Apple Snail, Pomacea canaliculata –(D) D. All species of Abalone, Genus Haliotis – (D), except: Red abalone, Haliotis rufescens; White abalone, Haliotis sorenseni; Pink abalone, Haliotis corrugate; Green abalone, Haliotis fulgens; Black abalone, Haliotis cracherodii; Pinto abalone, Haliotis kamtschatkana; Flat abalone, Haliotis walallensis; and Threaded abalone, Haliotis assimilis are not restricted. NOTE: Unpermitted nonnative abalone are determined to be detrimental to native populations, therefore the exemptions provided in Fish and Game Code subsection 2271 (b) and subsection 236 (b), Title 14, CCR, are not applicable. 10. BIVALVES - CLASS BIVALVIA - BIVALVES A. Zebra Mussel. All members of the genus Dreissena - (D). Since you were not aware of these, I think my point about your rights being taken from you right in front of your nose and you CA heroes doing NOTHING about it. I am not going to list the GUNS you CANNOT have or buy as the list is too long. Easier to list the fairly SHORT list of the guns you CAN buy. | ||
| Westerly1965 Message Board Member Username: Westerly1965 Post Number: 2385 Registered: 09-2010 |
Won't dispute the guns...that is not up for debate lol. But I think your reaction to the animals we can't have is a little much. For example most people don't care to own Sloth's as pets or Zebra Mussels. Not to mention these animals were all on the list before I moved here so I don't think you can finger me for that. For Reference here is the short list of banned animals in Florida note that many of them are the same as Cali : (a) Class 1: Chimpanzees (genus Pan) Gorillas (genus Gorilla) Gibbons (genus Hylobates) Drills and mandrills (genus Mandrillus) Orangutans (genus Pongo) Baboons (genus Papaio) Siamangs (genus Symphalangus) Gelada baboons (genus Theropithecus) Snow leopards (Panthera uncia) Leopards (Panthera pardus) Jaguars (Panthera onca) Tigers (Panthera tigris) Lions (Panthera leo) Bears (family Ursidae) Rhinoceros (family Rhinocerotidae) Elephants (family Elephantidae) Hippopotamuses (family Hippopotamidae) Cape buffalos (Syncerus caffer caffer) Crocodiles (except dwarf and Congo) (family Crocodilidae) Gavials (family Gavialidae) Black caimans (Melanosuchus niger) Komodo dragons (Varanus komodoensis) Significantly shorter list? Yes! I don't have the time or really the care to look into it any further then what they consider class 1 animals and how they regulate the rest of them. Yes Permits are required in Florida for Class II animals and some other species including anything non native. That is actually not unusual on a state level as the state's don't want non native animals introduced into their ecosystems. None of it makes any difference and I only picked Florida because it is YOUR state, my point is there are banned animals in every state. Are there more in Cali sure looks that way. But does that make them better or worse than any other state like Florida for example that has also BANNED certain animals from possession...... | ||
| Louiethelump Message Board Member Username: Louiethelump Post Number: 2723 Registered: 12-2010 |
I am sure no one "cares to own" NAA minis with under 4" barrels either, or whatever it is that is banned in CA. That OF COURSE is not the point, but like so many, you change the subject to "no one wants to own the animals that are banned" SO THEN WHY ARE THEY BANNED???????? You said you were not aware of animals you could not own in CA, and I provided a partial list that according to you, you did not know about. By the way, many of those little critters are very popular for people that own exotic fish tanks and such. Because YOU don't like exotic fish, you think it is OK to ban them. There was a news story here in FL a year or so ago that was probably supresed in Kalifornia about them taking little kids' pet sugar gliders that make great pets by the way, and either killing them or demanding they be out of the state in 24 hours. This was MUCH to the dismay of the owners of the little fuzz balls. I think the point is made. | ||
| Lohman446 Message Board Member Username: Lohman446 Post Number: 1813 Registered: 10-2010 |
Couldn't have Louie. The neighbors would have risen up and resisted. | ||
| Westerly1965 Message Board Member Username: Westerly1965 Post Number: 2387 Registered: 09-2010 |
LOL I LOVE how something that happened 10 years before I even moved to the state becomes an attack on ME! It MUST be MY FAULT that animals were banned here 10 years before I EVEN LIVED here because I live here now! I am certain that ALL the gun control laws here in Cali are also MY FAULT even though they were ALL passed BEFORE I ever even considered moving to this state! Yep your right you got me all figured out tough guy. I MUST be like every other Californian because you have yourself convinced in your little mind that since I live here everything that has ever or will ever happen here is MY FAULT! BTW I have lived here for the last nine years. In that time we have had no major gun control laws passed (barring two that were later shot down in the State Supreme Court as unconstitutional) and one ammo law in the city of Sacramento that will likely be repealed as when they tried to pass it state wide it was shot down by the supreme court. Do our gun laws suck? Yes but again I don't think you get to blame ME for laws that were passed 20 years before I lived here LOL! You didn't mention any of the cars I can't buy either! I am sure that ALL of those laws that were passed before I moved here were my fault to weren't they! I couldn't possibly have an opinion on any of that that would differ from the legislature here because I personally did it right! I didn't attack you but OF COURSE you took the opportunity to ATTACK ME! Good Work Louie! You are one tough keyboard commando! Lohman ~ You used to be an intelligent and interesting poster. Of late you have just acted like a Louie and Chopprs Stooge. Have you decided if you can't beat them join them? Or did your brain slip and fall out the side or your head? | ||
| Lohman446 Message Board Member Username: Lohman446 Post Number: 1816 Registered: 10-2010 |
In fairness, aside from my shot about your neighbors in California and current regulation my premises and conclusion are historically based and have historical examples behind them. Surely you are not objecting to the Niemoller quote. Liberty is not taken in some massive swoop of men in black rounding up all the guns all at once and declaring it across the nation. Liberty will be taken from small groups at a time and enforced by the government on small segments of the population. I have more examples of people not caring enough to act in the US after the Revolutionary War then you have of people taking action. Even if you take the one big example of people banding together and acting to protect their rights and soveriegn states it ultimatey failed (and no that war was not about slavery). Respectfully I think my argument is logically based and the premises have historical basis. Granted they are not perfectly optimistic but optimism is not a valid premise. It is not your fault that various states and the federal government have already overstepped the bounds of the second amendment. However the fact that they have done so with impunity seems to disfavor your argument of a mass uprising. Your premise of one is, in my opinion, demonstrably faulty. | ||
| Westerly1965 Message Board Member Username: Westerly1965 Post Number: 2390 Registered: 09-2010 |
Sigh ~ I never disagreed with your statement that liberty would be taken over time Lohman. For the 10th time THAT WAS NOT THE TOPIC OF THE THREAD! The implied topic was that 100,000 men dressed in black and walking in lockstep were going to go door to door and seize our guns. If you reread my posts above you will see several times where I said they could certainly do it slowly over time and succeed. What they ARE NOT going to do is send out 100k guys dressed in black to go door to door and seize guns and IF THEY DID DO THAT there would likely be an uprising as there would likely be an uprising IF the big O tried to cancel the elections. So now you are just arguing with me for the sake of arguing? THAT is what makes you look like a stooge.... | ||
| Louiethelump Message Board Member Username: Louiethelump Post Number: 2725 Registered: 12-2010 |
WES: I never blamed you and that is your guilt talking. YOU got into this with your tough talk about fighting and dying when they ban your guns, and you claim you "will be found in a ditch" before you give them up, but you buckle under for other oppressive rules and laws. YOU inserted yourself into this for whatever your reason. Don't jump up with a lot of B.S. tough guy talk and then complain when it is pointed out how much you have buckled under. Your claim that you will die before giving up your guns while at the same time doing without guns you want because of the same rules does not sell well. Someone that would die before giving up their guns to a band of armed troopers would certainly go get whatever guns he wanted and take them into CA without a thought. After all, they don't KILL you for THAT. Don't shoot off your mouth like a big shot anarchist when you are living in CA and complying with their presently oppressive laws. That is all. | ||
| Chopprs Message Board Member Username: Chopprs Post Number: 6398 Registered: 09-2009 |
.....LOL, (again) | ||
| Westerly1965 Message Board Member Username: Westerly1965 Post Number: 2391 Registered: 09-2010 |
Whoever said I don't have the guns I want? I brought all my guns with me when I moved here didn't have any trouble at all. I may have passed on a couple since I moved here because it was more complicated than I wanted to deal with but I don't really consider that buckling under oppression. Don't shoot my mouth off like a big shot anarchist? Really Louie? That's what you got? Come on man do you really believe for one second that if an armed troop of 100k men marched out of Washington and started snatching our guns and pillaging as YOU IMPLIED above that people wouldn't fight back? Saying that I would help that resistance is shooting my mouth off like a big shot anarchist? Boy when you don't have a valid argument you really do create some dumb stuff don't ya! Keep up the attack keyboard commando you are doing a fine job of embarrassing yourself! Not that anyone HERE would expect anything less than that from YOU! | ||
| Westerly1965 Message Board Member Username: Westerly1965 Post Number: 2392 Registered: 09-2010 |
Posted By YOU tough guy on March 20th. Won't be UN troops. will be his Black Panther trained, ACORN financed personal police force. He presumes gun owners are predominantly white, and his force is and will be predominantly black and will for sure be angry at whites after their training if they were not before it. Expect them to be brutal and him to be protective of them, and cover for whatever they do. | ||
| Louiethelump Message Board Member Username: Louiethelump Post Number: 2727 Registered: 12-2010 |
Is there a point here????? If they get banned and come looking for my guns, they will get them. I am not about to get myself killed for a few firearms. I posted who I think it will be if it happens on March 20th. SO?????? WHAT IS YOUR POINT? I am far too intelligent to "die gallantly in a ditch in a pile of brass" over some guns..... And so are you. that is why your tough talk is El Toro Poo Poo And YES, I believe that the American people, and even those "gallant freedom fighters in California" will willfully submit and turn over their guns. There will be some exceptions, but the majority of AMERICANs and ESPECIALLY CALIFORNIANS are SHEEPLE and will do what they are told. | ||
| Lohman446 Message Board Member Username: Lohman446 Post Number: 1817 Registered: 10-2010 |
Yes - I am saying they would not fight back. Would some? Perhaps but there would surely not be a large resistance. Because the troops would not be after "all guns" they would be after "armed criminals". Sure it might be a new branded police force intended to help enforce the "affordable" acts that will be coming over time but there will be no uprising. They would not be after "all guns" just the illegal ones or those owned by inellgible citizens. Of course members of Congress and certain donors would be exempted. They are not going to name it "the 100K troops dressed in black coming to get your guns" force but eventually when a few serious hold outs remain (often geographically seperated) they will go after them. Will people rise up? Nope. When I go to Chicago my gun stays home because I am not dealing with the stupidity of those laws even though the chance of being a victim of a violet crime goes up. I don't see a bunch of gun owners descending on Chicago to demand others second amendment rights. Do I think they are going to go door to door? I think eventually on a small scale this might be needed - luckily gun registration lists will help. Do I think that when they do anyone is going to run to the aid of their "fellow patriots". For the vast majority no. Do I think blowing off further expansion of the powers of the President is a good idea? Nope - and it was an even worse idea with the patriot act. | ||
| Westerly1965 Message Board Member Username: Westerly1965 Post Number: 2397 Registered: 09-2010 |
Lohman ~ The Patriot Act what a horrible idea that was. AND passed by a republican congress and senate and signed by a republican president. I think the "point" if there is one here is to give credit where credit is due. IF Obama goes out and does all the crap some of you are worried about it than it has to have been in the works for sometime now. As 3 years is a pretty short period of time to do all this stuff. As 8 months would be a nearly impossibly short amount of time to mobilize a gun grab. I did not "Blow off" the further expansion of power. What I did do in my first post was say that while I dislike this order it is not really any different from orders signed by BOTH of our last two presidents so I don't think it is anymore serious now than it was then... | ||
| Bleak_widow Message Board Member Username: Bleak_widow Post Number: 432 Registered: 11-2010 |
Why would they need to go door to door? Just write an Executive Order that everyone must turn in their guns by a certain date or their bank accounts will be seized and their employer ordered to terminate their employment. 95% would gather up their guns and run down to turn them in. The hold-outs would be seen as criminals and easy to hunt down. | ||
| Heyjoe Message Board Member Username: Heyjoe Post Number: 2612 Registered: 02-2009 |
I agree with Westerly and Lohman about the Patriot Act. The Patriot Act was first passed and then renewed a few times with overwhelming support from both republicans and democrats. The same with the recent bills allowing the military to hold american citizens indefintely without trial as well as authorizing and increasing the penalties for demonstrating outside of any building or place where someone protected by the secret service is living or visiting even if you did not know that such a person was present at that time. | ||
| Westerly1965 Message Board Member Username: Westerly1965 Post Number: 2400 Registered: 09-2010 |
Yea don't ya love how they name this stuff? Like the "Patriot Act" that is actually one of the most unpatriotic bills we have ever seen! | ||
| Heyjoe Message Board Member Username: Heyjoe Post Number: 2613 Registered: 02-2009 |
I have felt that the road to limiting the right to own firearms will be paved with a continuation 0f the expansion of the prohibited categories. Additional misdemeanors, illnesses that make you "unable" to safely handle a firearm, anyone who ever went to a psychologist or counselor, anyone who is on record as ever having used illegal drugs, anyone on an exhaustive list of prescription drugs, anyone with a bad driving record, credit history, etc. | ||
| Lohman446 Message Board Member Username: Lohman446 Post Number: 1824 Registered: 10-2010 |
I think you are going to see a series of "affordable" acts that do it - that is as an expansion of the prohibited categories. Shortly it will be decided that those who are not in compliance with the "affordable" healthcare act are ineligible to own guns. Since children will remain on their parents policy until the age of 25 the restriction to own certain guns or buy from stores may simply raised to 25 as well. Then there will be the "affordable" energy act that makes us dependent on the government or large corporations for our energy through a type of "insurance" program. Then the "affordable" food act. What about the "affordable" housing act? Pretty soon you will either be depenedent on the government for healthcare, energy, food, and shelter or ineligible to own guns. | ||
| Heyjoe Message Board Member Username: Heyjoe Post Number: 2623 Registered: 02-2009 |
you have to go no further to extrapolate the response and potential aid from many gun owners to a government confiscation scheme than other firearms forums where many posters have written that they would not help a child who was being kidnapped or stabbed with their ccw. They postulate that their ccw is for themselves and their family only. | ||
| Whitehorse Message Board Member Username: Whitehorse Post Number: 854 Registered: 09-2011 |
Heyjoe, That's why my 1st shot is 'snake shot'. I will try to wing them if I can after that. Double tap has always bothered me in the scenario of using my CCP to help a stranger. There are too many unknown variables that your B&W comment is ignoring. Perhaps the polling question of using ones CCP to help a stranger was also bias. | ||
| Louiethelump Message Board Member Username: Louiethelump Post Number: 2730 Registered: 12-2010 |
I want to be the attorney for the family of whoever Whitehorse shoots for ANY REASON!!!! A walk in the park win!!!! Only trouble is I will have to wait until he gets out of prison for the illegal shoot to sue him.............. Say this to the police and you get a fast track to jail!!!!!: "That's why my 1st shot is 'snake shot'. I will try to wing them if I can after that." | ||
| Lohman446 Message Board Member Username: Lohman446 Post Number: 1830 Registered: 10-2010 |
At least in MI firing any shot (even one that does not hit) is considered the use of deadly force and must be justifiable to avoid prosecution. "I was only trying to wing him" presents a problem. I believe all human life is sacred and would regret having to take the risk of killing someone because I had no other option. If I fire my handgun it is to stop rape, kidnapping, or severe bodily harm or death. I am firing as a last resort when all other reasonable options have failed and I am firing with the intent to only stop the attack. I am firing center of mass as the most effective way to stop an aggressive attack as taught by most law enforcement agencies. I am firing with the intent only to stop the attack and will stop firing the moment the attack no longer constituted an aggressive attack. It is my intent only to stop the attack and not to cause more injury than necessary or to kill the attacker. I understand that firing a gun at a human carries the risk of serious bodily injury or death of the target but my intent is only to stop the illegal aggressive behavior. I am not an officer of the law. While I would defend those who were the victims of such crimes in front of me, especially children, I do not go seeking them out. If my immediate surroundings are safe and those immediatly around me are safe I will retreat in a reasonable fashion that does not put me or others at risk. Edit: FYI this will all be explained through my lawyer. If I am involved in a shooting I will assist the officers in question in securing the scene and treat them with respect and courtesy. I will follow, to the best of my ability, all lawful orders. I will even offer them a drink assuming I am not cuffed and sitting in a police car. However it will be my attorney who explains what happened as anything I say, even in the heat of the moment, may be used against me at a later time. | ||
| Louiethelump Message Board Member Username: Louiethelump Post Number: 2732 Registered: 12-2010 |
+1 | ||
| Whitehorse Message Board Member Username: Whitehorse Post Number: 856 Registered: 09-2011 |
Lohmann446, +1 | ||
| Louiethelump Message Board Member Username: Louiethelump Post Number: 2734 Registered: 12-2010 |
lemme see.......... WH makes a statement, and Lohman says the exact opposite of WH statement of intent to wound with a firearm......................... AND WH +1's the statement contradicting WH's own statement!!!!! This is truly amazing............ | ||
| Heyjoe Message Board Member Username: Heyjoe Post Number: 2624 Registered: 02-2009 |
Louie +1,+1 (last two posts) Lohman +1 excellant post Whitehorse -1,-1 (last two posts) | ||
| Redhawk4 Message Board Member Username: Redhawk4 Post Number: 2987 Registered: 02-2009 |
Whitehorse -1 (last 856 posts) | ||
| Naa_collector Message Board Member Username: Naa_collector Post Number: 5939 Registered: 06-2009 |
NAA_Collector +1 | ||
| Chopprs Message Board Member Username: Chopprs Post Number: 6409 Registered: 09-2009 |
Where have I been....this is pretty good. So Bullmanure is arguing with....HIMSELF!?!?!? Hahahahhaha Wait a minute, he CAN'T shoot anybody. He admitted that he has no guns......also apparent by the use of terms from the movies like, "I WINGED him!" WOW!!!!! Who says that? | ||
| Louiethelump Message Board Member Username: Louiethelump Post Number: 2737 Registered: 12-2010 |
The keeper of the aviary??????? The Saint that issues equipment to new Angels? I dunno.............. | ||
| Heyjoe Message Board Member Username: Heyjoe Post Number: 2626 Registered: 02-2009 |
this is much better than comedy central | ||
| Louiethelump Message Board Member Username: Louiethelump Post Number: 2772 Registered: 12-2010 |
This from an article on the Blaze: "Members of The New Black Liberation Militia plan to take 28-year-old George Zimmerman to federal authorities this week since local police haven’t acted, said Najee Muhammad, a leader of the militia group. “We’ll find him. We’ve got his mug shot and everything,” Muhammad said." Here are a couple of photos from the website of the group that says they are going to sweep in and make a citizen's arrest:   There is NO indication that this group is connected to Obama's personal force, but I am betting they will join up when the time is right. THIS is the concern I have that make's Obama's signing of that new Executive Order on Mar 16th so worrisome to me. I am sure it is nothing................ | ||
| Heyjoe Message Board Member Username: Heyjoe Post Number: 2645 Registered: 02-2009 |
remember the black liberation army from the early 70's? they made the black panthers look like bobby soxers. really bad news. | ||
| Chopprs Message Board Member Username: Chopprs Post Number: 6457 Registered: 09-2009 |
.....I am on board with Louie. I have read and understand the doctrine that he speaks of.....it is really scary! | ||
| Westerly1965 Message Board Member Username: Westerly1965 Post Number: 2411 Registered: 09-2010 |
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/well-find-him-black-militia-organization-vows-vengeance-on-trayvon-martin-shooter/ That's the link if anybody wants to actually read it and draw their own conclusions.. | ||
| 22man Message Board Member Username: 22man Post Number: 458 Registered: 10-2011 |
sad, VIGALANTES protesting against VIGALANTES you couldn't make this stuff up. I get that the black community has some concern about police and governments,,,,,,,but you can't preach about "not rushing to judgement" in one case and do just that in another..... well you can, but it destroys your credibility Those calling for the killing of Zimmerman must be Racists for hating a Hispanic Minority..... See, this is why I was initially ignoring this story,,,,, it's full of BS and men hungry for Power,,,,with no chance of good until all the facts come out. oh well, people gonna do what they're gonna do The FBI and Holder should be investigating the NBLM for making threats and possible stalking | ||
| Chopprs Message Board Member Username: Chopprs Post Number: 6470 Registered: 09-2009 |
Holder is too busy investigating HIMSELF, or at least sitting with his feet on the desk telling everyone that he is. What is astounding is the level of rhetoric that the American people have come to accept. Since when do we allow someone, especially a high ranking official, to investigate HIMSELF.......WHEN WE ALREADY NOW HE IS GUILTY?!?!?!?! | ||
| Whitehorse Message Board Member Username: Whitehorse Post Number: 881 Registered: 09-2011 |
+1 | ||
| 22man Message Board Member Username: 22man Post Number: 468 Registered: 10-2011 |
8| Chubby and potrosblancos agree on something?!?!?! Better check my compass because I think the world turned upside down last night. Chopprs, you gonna go make a citizens arrest on Guilty Holder? Please take a video camera with you if you do..... | ||
| Uncle_lee Message Board Member Username: Uncle_lee Post Number: 2165 Registered: 09-2009 |
"Those calling for the killing of Zimmerman must be Racists for hating a Hispanic Minority..... " He is a "White Hispanic". I have heard and read that in several places. I guess that means that obama is a "White Afro-American"????? | ||
| Redhawk4 Message Board Member Username: Redhawk4 Post Number: 3046 Registered: 02-2009 |
Why is it that racism is portrayed as only existing between white people and . . . . (fill the blank). When I lived in the UK some of the most open and hateful racism I saw, including real violence, was between Pakistanis and Black people. So in this case it may not be politically correct to even suggest such a thing, but there could be Hispanics who don't like Black people and vice versa - but of course Zimmerman has to be a "White Hispanic" because only White people can be filled with hatred in the same way as I must have mis-heard those Black guys who were shouting "White Sh**" at me, before chasing me to beat the crap out of me, as I walked down the street in Wolverhampton some years back. | ||
| Bud Message Board Member Username: Bud Post Number: 2077 Registered: 10-2009 |
Sure wish you'd had your revolver with you then! | ||
| Redhawk4 Message Board Member Username: Redhawk4 Post Number: 3047 Registered: 02-2009 |
While black athletes always feature predominantly in track events, I showed them that if "White Men Can't Jump" they can certainly run, with the adrenalin of 10 Black guys chasing them. | ||
| Westerly1965 Message Board Member Username: Westerly1965 Post Number: 2415 Registered: 09-2010 |
"While black athletes always feature predominantly in track events, I showed them that if "White Men Can't Jump" they can certainly run, with the adrenalin of 10 Black guys chasing them." That literally made me "laugh out loud" Redhawk. It also gave me a hilarious visual of a skinny brit fleeing from the crowd of black guys lol glad they didn't catch ya! | ||
| 22man Message Board Member Username: 22man Post Number: 470 Registered: 10-2011 |
I was picturing a chubby very winded Brit running down hill. Also glad you avoided their grasp. I don't do running very well,,,my heart and knee would probably blow out, Then I'd be a weaker target when they caught up to me. Guess in that situation I'd just have to Go 'wolverine' on em and start biting and clawing eyes out..... My 'back is against the wall, got nothing to lose, time to go crazy rabid animal' fuse is probably a little shorter with age these days | ||
| Redhawk4 Message Board Member Username: Redhawk4 Post Number: 3050 Registered: 02-2009 |
I'm glad you had a laugh Westerly about my "athletic prowess" 22man, now in my 50's your description might be a little more accurate than Westerly's, not too chubby but definitely winded This, however was when I was younger and fitter and playing Rugby regularly, hence the fact I got away | ||
| Lohman446 Message Board Member Username: Lohman446 Post Number: 1878 Registered: 10-2010 |
The duty to retreat is far different than the duty to flee, and I think it is important that we consider that in these conversations. The Dodgers fan that was running with his friends from his attackers was attacked from behind and his friends too far gone to help him. Retreating is done in an organized manner that does not leave those you have a duty to protect behind and does not expose you to more risk. It is not turning on your heels and fleeing. I assure you I can outrun most attackers (I was running sub 6 minute miles a year ago). My duty and will to retreat though does not turn my back to that threat and flee. | ||
| Uncle_lee Message Board Member Username: Uncle_lee Post Number: 2173 Registered: 09-2009 |
I guess my fate is sealed. When I got my knees replaced, the doctor told me of two restrictions. No running and no operating a jackhammer. So I can't run from anything or kill it with a jackhammer. But that leaves a lot of options open. | ||
| Bud Message Board Member Username: Bud Post Number: 2081 Registered: 10-2009 |
Samuel Colt made all men equal. | ||
| Chopprs Message Board Member Username: Chopprs Post Number: 6499 Registered: 09-2009 |
....Lee, thanx for the visual....AGAIN! | ||
| Redhawk4 Message Board Member Username: Redhawk4 Post Number: 3051 Registered: 02-2009 |
Lohnman - 1 against 10, when you don't have a gun leaves you little choice, but to turn your back and run while you still have enough distance between you for it to be viable. However, when there are others with you there is a duty to stay together or even run the other way against the "traffic" as I did once when some friends were attacked by a mad drunkard with a broken bottle either hand in some public restrooms, I was outside but when others ran out, I ran back in to help the two who were cornered. It took all three of us to hold him down and disarm him he was so fighting mad. | ||
| Uncle_lee Message Board Member Username: Uncle_lee Post Number: 2181 Registered: 09-2009 |
Well Red, If you had been armed, one or two shots and game over. He would never had bothered anyone again. How many people did he cut up after they slapped his hand and released him? Those folks could have been saved. | ||
| Redhawk4 Message Board Member Username: Redhawk4 Post Number: 3058 Registered: 02-2009 |
Uncle Lee, if I'd been well armed, I'd probably still be in jail rather than posting on the NAA forum, it was the UK after all LOL It would be very interesting to see how the lives of many we have 'met" briefly, but negatively have turned out over the intervening years. Given how tough life can be sometimes, when playing with a full deck and with the advantages of a good parents, a strong work ethic and a good education etc. I have often felt that many, who at one time I might have felt vengeful against, will have been more than adequately punished by life itself, assuming they have lived into their 50's, as I have. The lessons you don't learn as a child will be taught to you harshly by life, until you either get them or die unhappily, still convinced you are right. | ||
| Lohman446 Message Board Member Username: Lohman446 Post Number: 1900 Registered: 10-2010 |
Red you are right. There are times to flee. THere are also times to retreat. It is important to not get the two mixed up though. | ||
| Naa_collector Message Board Member Username: Naa_collector Post Number: 6064 Registered: 06-2009 |
Exactly. "Stand your ground" does not mean that you should shoot if you can run away safely. Shooting should ONLY be used as a last resort. Taking a life is serious. The reason the "Stand your ground" laws were important is because it generally covers for when you are "in your castle," or at home. There generally isn't a place to which you can retreat if you are in your home and there is an attacker who has violated the boundaries of "your castle." If there is a chance of being attacked while trying to get away, tho, you should "stand your ground." The liberale who don't get the purpose of these laws are idiots. | ||
| Lohman446 Message Board Member Username: Lohman446 Post Number: 1905 Registered: 10-2010 |
Stand your ground laws were designed to fix a question often asked: Before severe bodily harm, rape, or kidnapping was imminent why did you not retreat? Couldn't you tell he was going to present a threat before he did? Basically it said you had no legal duty to retreat from a place you were legally allowed in in the first place. As long as you had a legal right to be where you were AND were in imminent danger you did not have a duty to retreat. Some prosecutors were arguing that you had a duty to retreat just from the presence of a "bad guy" and were questioning judgement of those who did not retreat as being blood thirsty. Stand your ground laws basically moved hte castle doctrine outside of your home. Did you know that some states require retreat (if possible) even if you are in your home - I think Mass might be one of them actually. | ||
| Naa_collector Message Board Member Username: Naa_collector Post Number: 6066 Registered: 06-2009 |
Yeah, in some places in the country (probably the "negative" of the map the guys were showing on MSNBC regarding the "Stand your ground" laws), anybody with a gun in presumed to be a criminal, unless proven otherwise. With people like Schumer, Holder, and Obama in charge, we are headed toward a society where a homeowner will go to prison for the rest of his life if he dares shoot an intruder in his own home--which is already the case in places like England. Such actually happens there. | ||
| Lohman446 Message Board Member Username: Lohman446 Post Number: 1907 Registered: 10-2010 |
Its actually rather complicated. Red may have explained it in another thread but I cannot find it. Our laws come out of English common law, at least for the most part. It was referred to as "The King's Peace" as a reason and only the King (and his soldiers) had a right to enforce it. Public fighting was not allowed and you were breaking the kings peace if you did and did not have the right to uphold the king's peace if you get involved. The castle doctine was a slight exemption for it. In its simplest form you were allowed to enforce the peace (usually lethally) in your own home. Stand your ground laws are a movement towards the peace being a responsibility of everyone. You are not under duty to retreat. I would personally still recommend it but you are not under a legal duty to retreat even when outside your home. | ||
| Naa_collector Message Board Member Username: Naa_collector Post Number: 6344 Registered: 06-2009 |
Congressman fears Obama power-grab in emergency: http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-04-07/news/os-sandy-adams-obama-martial-law-20120407_1_order-powers-barack-obama It's not just us lay gun nuts. |
